Where do you draw the line for ECLs?

[BLACKDIRGE]

As a DM of a campaign starting at level 1, what is your cut-off for ECLs? I think anything over ECL 4 for a starting campiagn is pushing it.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Dirge

 

[buzzard]

As a DM of a campaign starting at level 1, what is your cut-off for ECLs? I think anything over ECL 4 for a starting campiagn is pushing it.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Dirge

If the other players were starting at one, then ECL 0 would be my limit. A 4th lvl character will greatly overshadow any 1st lvl character.

Buzzard

 

[S'mon]

As a DM of a campaign starting at level 1, what is your cut-off for ECLs? I think anything over ECL 4 for a starting campiagn is pushing it.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Dirge

As an encounter that has to be fought by a 1st level party I'd avoid over EL 3, but if the party screw up they may face a higher EL - eg in a recent game of mine the party of 5 1st levellers were wiped out by a force of 8 orcs and a 1st level cleric, about EL 5, after foolishly camping in a single-exit cave near the dungeon entrance - they raided the dungeon then set up camp 1/4 mile away, the dungeon's master sent a force to go get them.
Some officially EL 4 encounters will easily slaughter a 1st level party - 4 ghouls or 2 ogres, for instance. Even 1 ogre, supposedly CR 2, will likely cause heavy losses.

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

Re: Re: Where do you draw the line for ECLs?

If the other players were starting at one, then ECL 0 would be my limit. A 4th lvl character will greatly overshadow any 1st lvl character.

Buzzard

So you would not let 1st level PC's choose to play a drow elf, Svirfneblin, genasi, aasimar , etc..?

Dirge

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Where do you draw the line for ECLs?

So you would not let 1st level PC's choose to play a drow elf, Svirfneblin, genasi, aasimar , etc..?

Dirge

That's pretty obvious.

 

[Sodalis]

black dirge: So you would not let 1st level PC's choose to play a drow elf, Svirfneblin, genasi, aasimar , etc..?

why should they be able to start with a higher ECL than any other party member? If you are starting a game at lvl1, then there shoul be no reason for anyone to have a ecl higher than that.

What buzzard is saying is that if you let someone be a 1/2 dragon 1/2 elf fighter 1, that person will be far more powerful than a lvl 1 fighter.

It is not fair to have suchj a big disparity among the grup.

If you are allowing templates and various races, then I would up the starting ECL to 3 or 4. taht way, a player can play differing races (with proper lvl adj) and a player that wants to play a core race/ class combo can without be overshadiowed by other players...

i am with buzzard- if you are starting at lvl 1, then the ECl has to be set at +0- just to make it fair

Edit_____________________
S'Mon, you are talking about EL (encounter lvl) and he is talking about ECl (effective character lvl) both different things.

Encounter lvl is how hard an encounter is, so you as DM can gauge what is the proper challenge for the group.

ECL is how powerful your character is compared to another character. In theory, all classes/race combo with teh same ECL should beat each other to death, with the winner narrowly escaping with his life...

so a 1/2 dragon/ minotaur (+3 dragon, +8 minotaur)/ fighter 6 should be as powerful as a human cleric 17.

 

[Vuron]

Personally I don't care for maintaining the mythical balance and fairness that many people talk about. If it suits the storyline then sure go ahead and have a bugbear fighter join the rest of the party. However if the race chosen is simply to be used for powerleveling reasons then discourage it.

As a whole though if someone wanted to go with a roleplaying stretch and play a Bugbear Druid or a Lizardman Sorceror etc I would probably allow it if they came up with a decent background etc. Basically yes they could potentially disrupt some low level encounters but thier ECL would also significantly slow down thier advancement allowing the others to catch up. Remember that a ECL 5 PC defeating a EL1 encounter gives neglible experience to the ECL 5 member. As long as the PC is comfortable with "tanking" and advancing slow I see absolutely no reason to discourage this.

However I would discourage ECLs of greater than +3 or +4 simply because they do make planning worthwhile encounters more difficult.

 

[Tonguez]

I agree with buzzard that ecl+0 is the best bet for a lvl 1 party (although I personally might allow a +1 race with commoner class).

I say start the party at lvl 3 and allow ECL +2 max with NPC (ECL-1) classes only.

 

[S'mon]

why should they be able to start with a higher ECL than any other party member? If you are starting a game at lvl1, then there shoul be no reason for anyone to have a ecl higher than that.

What buzzard is saying is that if you let someone be a 1/2 dragon 1/2 elf fighter 1, that person will be far more powerful than a lvl 1 fighter.

It is not fair to have suchj a big disparity among the grup.

If you are allowing templates and various races, then I would up the starting ECL to 3 or 4. taht way, a player can play differing races (with proper lvl adj) and a player that wants to play a core race/ class combo can without be overshadiowed by other players...

i am with buzzard- if you are starting at lvl 1, then the ECl has to be set at +0- just to make it fair

Edit_____________________
S'Mon, you are talking about EL (encounter lvl) and he is talking about ECl (effective character lvl) both different things.

I get that now - and I agree with you, obviously no PC should be effectively 2nd, 3rd or 4th level when the others start at 1st. That really goes without saying IMO.

OTOH the question of what ELs to throw at a starting party is a much more interesting one...

 

[UD]

Re: Re: Re: Where do you draw the line for ECLs?

So you would not let 1st level PC's choose to play a drow elf, Svirfneblin, genasi, aasimar , etc..?

Dirge

Yep. Thats the whole point of ECL's, to balance these races out.