Where do you draw the line for ECLs?
- Thread starter BLACKDIRGE
- Start date
BLACKDIRGE
Adventurer
Re: Re: Balance?
I don't know, I've got a guy in my group thats been playing for 25 years and sometimes we still have to draw him a picture.
As to the higher ECL being unfair to other players playin standard races, I think it can be balcnced if you have good DM. For instance in the campaign my friend just started I am a 1st level Gnoll Paladin ECL+2, the rest of the group are standard characters. the DM balances my extra abilities with rolsplaying drawbacks. i have to make DC 20 diplomacy checks every time i want to buy an ale, get into a city, or practically anything where i am dealing with the normal populace. i have been attacked by a 2 town militias regardless of my paladinhood ( i was obviously an imposter). So yoe see it can be done and still be fair to the other characters.
Dirge
buzzard said:
I don't know, I've got a guy in my group thats been playing for 25 years and sometimes we still have to draw him a picture.
As to the higher ECL being unfair to other players playin standard races, I think it can be balcnced if you have good DM. For instance in the campaign my friend just started I am a 1st level Gnoll Paladin ECL+2, the rest of the group are standard characters. the DM balances my extra abilities with rolsplaying drawbacks. i have to make DC 20 diplomacy checks every time i want to buy an ale, get into a city, or practically anything where i am dealing with the normal populace. i have been attacked by a 2 town militias regardless of my paladinhood ( i was obviously an imposter). So yoe see it can be done and still be fair to the other characters.
Dirge
buzzard
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Balance?
I think you're wearing blinders.
His post:
If you cared to read his post you would have noted his condescending tone. Such lines as "if you are playing Diablo and Dragons hack and slash door busting", are hardly less than inflammatory. He has waved a broad brush painting anyone who disagrees his views as mindless hack and slash roll players. I disagree with him, hence I have been so painted.
After that he goes into preach mode about how all should follow his benighted view of running games. When he says "I guess I'm on a mission to mature people out there", he is being obnoxious. Such a statement implies that doing things any other way than his is childish. If you cannot see these things in his post, you are not only wearing blinders, you are blind.
Buzzard
d20 said:
I think you're wearing blinders.
His post:
If you cared to read his post you would have noted his condescending tone. Such lines as "if you are playing Diablo and Dragons hack and slash door busting", are hardly less than inflammatory. He has waved a broad brush painting anyone who disagrees his views as mindless hack and slash roll players. I disagree with him, hence I have been so painted.
After that he goes into preach mode about how all should follow his benighted view of running games. When he says "I guess I'm on a mission to mature people out there", he is being obnoxious. Such a statement implies that doing things any other way than his is childish. If you cannot see these things in his post, you are not only wearing blinders, you are blind.
Buzzard
buzzard
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Balance?
Yes, I can imagine these are inconveniences. However why don't you just wait outside of town and have other party members bring you what you need? This form of balance is easily worked around if you want to, which any character with common sense would strive to do, methinks. If I knew I would get harassed by the town guard every time I went into a town, I would avoid it. Then come combat time, the Gnoll palladin would be laying out the opposition at a ferocious rate. Surely your combat worth would lead the other characters to accommodate your handicaps to a degree which would alleviate them. Thus, the role playing limitation loses it's force.
Now if your actions have dictated the level of inconvenience - going into towns to be harassed, attending pubs where you are obviously not wanted, I fail to be impressed by the balance. A human could get into all that trouble with a bit of effort. Would a 1st level Cleric of Iuz prancing about in an enemy nation get any bonuses for the antipathy he will suffer?
Buzzard
BLACKDIRGE said:
Yes, I can imagine these are inconveniences. However why don't you just wait outside of town and have other party members bring you what you need? This form of balance is easily worked around if you want to, which any character with common sense would strive to do, methinks. If I knew I would get harassed by the town guard every time I went into a town, I would avoid it. Then come combat time, the Gnoll palladin would be laying out the opposition at a ferocious rate. Surely your combat worth would lead the other characters to accommodate your handicaps to a degree which would alleviate them. Thus, the role playing limitation loses it's force.
Now if your actions have dictated the level of inconvenience - going into towns to be harassed, attending pubs where you are obviously not wanted, I fail to be impressed by the balance. A human could get into all that trouble with a bit of effort. Would a 1st level Cleric of Iuz prancing about in an enemy nation get any bonuses for the antipathy he will suffer?
Buzzard
reapersaurus
Explorer
Buzzard - there's no point in calling Kwalish on his attitude.
Kwalish has spoken, and come from on high to saaaaave the ignorant ENBoarders!
We are all naughty in His sight, and must be shown the error of our waayaaas!
We are all but babes compared to the wealth of wisdom locked in the High Tower of Nutkinland...
Kwalish has spoken, and come from on high to saaaaave the ignorant ENBoarders!
We are all naughty in His sight, and must be shown the error of our waayaaas!
We are all but babes compared to the wealth of wisdom locked in the High Tower of Nutkinland...
I just had a thought- and I am going to throw it out there for people who want to kick it around... and i know this is ust a thought:
why not let the players choose whatever race they want right... and for those that choose weaker races (ie the core ones) get levels to help balance out the issue.
So if one guy chooses a half dragon, another chooses a hlaf orc, then the half orc will get 3 class levels to balance out with teh dragon's +3ECL.
I know this idea is really radical, and well- It just came to me... but it may just work...
sorry- for being such an arse- but I don't see the problem with having people play fun races, but the balance issue has already been dealt with in the form of ECL- and character classes. So why are we havingthis discussion of what do for balance and such- do what the book tells you...
and on top of that- of course there will be in game consequences. The core races are the most tolerated inmost societies. And if you are a gnoll paladin, trying to enter the temple of St Cuthbert- you better be prepared to defend your faith against the clerics, or at thevery elast the people that do not understand. And if you are a half fiend (even if you are good) trying to buy bread froma baker, be prepared for the off chance that he might turn you away because of your ugly face....
why not let the players choose whatever race they want right... and for those that choose weaker races (ie the core ones) get levels to help balance out the issue.
So if one guy chooses a half dragon, another chooses a hlaf orc, then the half orc will get 3 class levels to balance out with teh dragon's +3ECL.
I know this idea is really radical, and well- It just came to me... but it may just work...
sorry- for being such an arse- but I don't see the problem with having people play fun races, but the balance issue has already been dealt with in the form of ECL- and character classes. So why are we havingthis discussion of what do for balance and such- do what the book tells you...
and on top of that- of course there will be in game consequences. The core races are the most tolerated inmost societies. And if you are a gnoll paladin, trying to enter the temple of St Cuthbert- you better be prepared to defend your faith against the clerics, or at thevery elast the people that do not understand. And if you are a half fiend (even if you are good) trying to buy bread froma baker, be prepared for the off chance that he might turn you away because of your ugly face....
Similar Threads
