Where does the Gnomish Tinker stereo/archetype come from?
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demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Illuminati-style Gnomes of Zurich? Nice.
Frankly, I'm OK with the tinker gnome archetype, but I'd be perfectly happy with forest-loving, talk-to-the-animals gnomes too. Only when the line between the two blurs am I irritated.
Demiurge out.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
And cuckoo clocks, cheese-makers, IMMACULATE streets, conscription, political neutrality, etc.demiurge1138 said:
Honestly, the real Switzerland is a pretty interesting place, once you graft it into a fantasy universe. The Gnomes of Zurich pun is a good jumping off point, and suggests that you may not be able to trust the devious little bastards, and it gives you something other than the now-very-standard tinkers (although that's sort of in there, since someone's making the clocks and other low level technology) and the sort of vague short wood elf thing.
AFGNCAAP
First Post
I rember seeing the tinker-ish gnomes in basic/OD&D materials, but I wasn't sure if that was pre- or post-Dragonlance (now I know... {wait for it...} ...and knowing's half the battle!). It was interesting at first, but it became quite old quickly (well, for me, at least--YMMV).
To tell you the truth, I wonder if gnomes in D&D would have ever been created (or at least, taken form as they are now) if the original rules allowed for (some arcane, & divine) spellcasting dwarves (since gnomes seem to be somewhat more like the magical, mischievious dwarves of myth & folklore).
Personally, for my homebrew, I'm in the midst of redesigning gnomes. Originally, I was considering to make dwarves a sort of half-gnome/half-human race that evolved along their own lines. However, now I'm really considering making gnomes a race that resulted from crossbreeding between dwarves, halflings, & some fey folk--hence the gnomes' more magical nature, small build (though taller & stockier than a halfling), and racial abilities (though I was going to modify the age categories, possibly using svirneblin ranges instead). I'm just not sure if I should give them a "Dwarven Blood" or "Halfling Blood" race trait (ala Elven Blood or Orc Blood for half-elves and half-orcs, respectively), or even make them a bit like the feytouched (from Fiend Folio).
To tell you the truth, I wonder if gnomes in D&D would have ever been created (or at least, taken form as they are now) if the original rules allowed for (some arcane, & divine) spellcasting dwarves (since gnomes seem to be somewhat more like the magical, mischievious dwarves of myth & folklore).
Personally, for my homebrew, I'm in the midst of redesigning gnomes. Originally, I was considering to make dwarves a sort of half-gnome/half-human race that evolved along their own lines. However, now I'm really considering making gnomes a race that resulted from crossbreeding between dwarves, halflings, & some fey folk--hence the gnomes' more magical nature, small build (though taller & stockier than a halfling), and racial abilities (though I was going to modify the age categories, possibly using svirneblin ranges instead). I'm just not sure if I should give them a "Dwarven Blood" or "Halfling Blood" race trait (ala Elven Blood or Orc Blood for half-elves and half-orcs, respectively), or even make them a bit like the feytouched (from Fiend Folio).
Death_Jester
Explorer
For years I have had the idea that Gnomes were tricksters and practical jokers because the first two I was ever introduced to were. The characters were brothers, played by some old friends of mine and they did all kinds of horrible things to each other. It stuck and the 1st & 2nd ed core books seem to reflect that in some ways. They seemed to have some special abilities based on illusion and trap making so they just ran with it and really made each other’s lives hell for a while.
Fortunately the "tall people" (that being me and the rest of the party) were excluded from most of the fun.
Also something that has come up recently with the Gnomes and the Tinkerer stereotype is that during the time of troubles Gond showed up in Lantan as a Gnome; thus reinforcing the concept all the more in the Realms.
I have no clue what to do with them in my game in the realms but I will have to think of something or ditch them altogether.
As an aside, no one has mentioned this yet but the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" did something with Gnomes that does make them very distinctive. I have never thought of what happens when you marry the natural urge to create things with an unnatural proclivity to procreate.
These are not your father’s Gnomes boys and girls.
They are distinctive and definitely have a place in the world. Probably not on the battlefield or the dungeon, but a place. Couple that with the Zurich references from the earlier posts and they would have one heck of a nation or region. Everyone would want to be their friend. Nothing wrong with rich, decadent, and politically neutral. After all what is the big attraction of Las Vegas? All the vices are legal there and condoned by the local government. So people flock there every year to "have fun" (whatever that might be) and then go home.
Fortunately the "tall people" (that being me and the rest of the party) were excluded from most of the fun.
Also something that has come up recently with the Gnomes and the Tinkerer stereotype is that during the time of troubles Gond showed up in Lantan as a Gnome; thus reinforcing the concept all the more in the Realms.
I have no clue what to do with them in my game in the realms but I will have to think of something or ditch them altogether.
As an aside, no one has mentioned this yet but the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" did something with Gnomes that does make them very distinctive. I have never thought of what happens when you marry the natural urge to create things with an unnatural proclivity to procreate.
These are not your father’s Gnomes boys and girls.
They are distinctive and definitely have a place in the world. Probably not on the battlefield or the dungeon, but a place. Couple that with the Zurich references from the earlier posts and they would have one heck of a nation or region. Everyone would want to be their friend. Nothing wrong with rich, decadent, and politically neutral. After all what is the big attraction of Las Vegas? All the vices are legal there and condoned by the local government. So people flock there every year to "have fun" (whatever that might be) and then go home.
Pants
First Post
Tinker Gnomes are teh suck. 
I think that explains my position on it quite well.
I'm actually quite happy with the tree-hugging-forest-loving-diminutive-hippy archetype that are the gnomes. They seem much more Fey-sh than the other standard races and it is an angle I'm willing to explore in my next campaign.
I think that explains my position on it quite well.
I'm actually quite happy with the tree-hugging-forest-loving-diminutive-hippy archetype that are the gnomes. They seem much more Fey-sh than the other standard races and it is an angle I'm willing to explore in my next campaign.
Scarbonac
Not An Evil Twin
When I think "gnome", I mostly picture Engywook and Urgl from The Neverending Story or Miracle Max and Valerie from Princess Bride.
Gnomes as magicians (illusionist or bard), tricksters and tinkerers (but not incompetent DL tinkerers) I like lots; I'm not as keen on the second-cousin-to-a-badger types, but there's room in my world for all kinds.
Gnomes as magicians (illusionist or bard), tricksters and tinkerers (but not incompetent DL tinkerers) I like lots; I'm not as keen on the second-cousin-to-a-badger types, but there's room in my world for all kinds.
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