Where is the bugbear rage?

[DracoSuave]

Although it's funny that he says oversized in PC's hands are too good, but on the other hand there's the Epic Destiny Eternal Defender lets the PC use Oversized. Now it's not until 24th level, but it is there.

Epic level stuff is for epic level. 'Being on the level of a demigod' isn't ironic at level 21.

He's refering to -races- aka heroic tier.

Context, man, don't they teach it in school?

 

[eriktheguy]

Yeah, but many other of the monster manual races are quite balanced for PCs. Anyone have a suggestion for something on the bugbears to replace oversized (house rule). Maybe the hobgoblin initiative bonus or the goblin reflex bonus. The race seems balanced in every way except this.

 

[renau1g]

Epic level stuff is for epic level. 'Being on the level of a demigod' isn't ironic at level 21.

He's refering to -races- aka heroic tier.

Context, man, don't they teach it in school?

Wow...simmer down holmes, nice personal attacks. If you read the quote he says PC's hands not heroic or paragon tier only. I suppose you can view +1 damage as truly epic that only a demigod could hope to obtain...or you can just grab weapon focus and have +3 at that level

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Yeah, but many other of the monster manual races are quite balanced for PCs. Anyone have a suggestion for something on the bugbears to replace oversized (house rule). Maybe the hobgoblin initiative bonus or the goblin reflex bonus. The race seems balanced in every way except this.

Give them a Superior Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. This accomplishes exactly the same thing as Oversized does for anyone using military grade weapons (boosts damage) but won't break when Brutal comes into play.

 

[DracoSuave]

Wow...simmer down holmes, nice personal attacks. If you read the quote he says PC's hands not heroic or paragon tier only. I suppose you can view +1 damage as truly epic that only a demigod could hope to obtain...or you can just grab weapon focus and have +3 at that level

Thus, you'll see things like giving monsters oversized weapons and not giving them to official PC races. As others have pointed out, oversized weapons in PC hands are simply too good. It makes those races strictly better with weapons. If a PC race somehow gets it, expect it to be errata'd as soon as I see it.

1) It's not +1 damage at epic tier. It's +1 per [W] at bare minimum, perhaps more. A very small minority of powers at epic level have only 1[W]. Including at-wills.

2) He's obviously talking about races, which is something that applies across all tiers. Epic destinies are not races. Seriously. Context. It's -right there-. There's a lot more quote than 'PC's hands'

 

[eriktheguy]

Give them a Superior Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. This accomplishes exactly the same thing as Oversized does for anyone using military grade weapons (boosts damage) but won't break when Brutal comes into play.

Thanks, this works well. Doesn't really fit my build well (rapier isn't offhand so I can't think of anything to replace shortsword with for my build) but hey, that's my problem. I'll mention this one to the DM.

 

[renau1g]

1) It's not +1 damage at epic tier. It's +1 per [W] at bare minimum, perhaps more. A very small minority of powers at epic level have only 1[W]. Including at-wills.

2) He's obviously talking about races, which is something that applies across all tiers. Epic destinies are not races. Seriously. Context. It's -right there-. There's a lot more quote than 'PC's hands'

Don't really see what you're arguing here. So... in epic when the PP lets you have oversized it's not balanced?

Like I said, calm down dude. You certainly got pretty upset for no real reason. I brought up another area of the game that this is offered and then you fly off the handle with personal attacks questioning both my understanding of the quote and my education. Unless you know me, which you don't, I'd appreciate if you discussed in a manner that is more conducive to rationale discourse.

 

[DracoSuave]

Who claimed I was upset?

And I -am- being rational. I pointed out how Mearls said, three times, that he was refering to races, specifically. That makes the context of his statement: Races.

It's not a personal attack, it's a statement of obvious context, and if it's not obvious, then there is a barrier to rational discussion, as we are clearly not discussing the same thing.

 

[mneme]

ren: chill. Draco made one crack; you've ragged him about it for 2 pages.

Also, he's right; there's a huge difference between letting you get oversized from an ED and letting you get oversized from a race. Moreover, oversized from a race is (particularly a race that gives you a strength bonus) is overpowered in Heroic -- well before you get to epic. A PC race with Oversized would do more damage on 1W attacks, and significantly more damage on 4W attacks -- which are available to Str paladins at first level. That it would then, oh, I don't know, -stack- with a nice Epic Destiny is icing on the cake.

 

[FireLance]

Give them a Superior Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. This accomplishes exactly the same thing as Oversized does for anyone using military grade weapons (boosts damage) but won't break when Brutal comes into play.

Alternatively, just give a flat bonus to damage rolls with weapon keyword powers when using an oversized weapon. +1 damage per tier should be fairly okay, and this way, it stacks with Superior Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus.