D&D 4E Where was 4e headed before it was canned?

[Garthanos]

There are significant problems with the 4e math when it comes to defenses and skills, largely due to the way ability boosts skew the math over time and the monumental difference between untrained, trained, and skill focus.

Yes trying to interweave them is a pain .... 5e let rogues have expertise which I think created some of the same efffect perhaps?

 

[Garthanos]

Being able to use Skill to target the same kinds of DCs as attacks would be nice across the board.

 

[Parmandur]

And I am more likely to fail at convincing the county mayor or being stopped by his cellar door, at high level because 5e does not provide as much general competence (except insert house rules)

No, you get better at it: significantly so.

 

[Garthanos]

Things that only marginally challenged a level 1 are unlikely to show up on the higher level DCs for 4e characters they do not worry about those things anymore. AND not just because spells undermine entier half a journey with a blink

Typo was referencing 4e not 5e

 

[Garthanos]

No, you get better at it: significantly so.

Only if you somehow focus on it (There is general progression in 4e that isnt there in 5e)

 

[Garthanos]

in 4e its like you have "adventuring skill" which provides a bonus in most everything adventurers do and all your attributes advance independently of what you picked in ASIs on top of that.

 

[Campbell]

Yes trying to interweave them is a pain .... 5e let rogues have expertise which I think created some of the same efffect perhaps?

This would be largely better in Pathfinder 2 in things a character is at least trained in and it is very easy to get trained in skills. The ability score band is much tighter and differences in skill levels only account for a difference of 6 and are largely based on a series of choices. It would be better if untrained added your level, but people complained when they did that. There is still a general feat that patches it however in a game where general feats are not that valuable.

 

[Garthanos]

This would be largely better in Pathfinder 2 in things a character is at least trained in and it is very easy to get trained in skills. The ability score band is much tighter and differences in skill levels only account for a difference of 6 and are largely based on a series of choices. It would be better if untrained added your level, but people complained when they did that. There is still a general feat that patches it however in a game where general feats are not that valuable.

The only problem I have with pathfinder 2... is pathfinder 1 (the refusal to actually address issues from 3.x e makes me think their 2e will be imbalanced and full of issues)

 

[Parmandur]

The rogue is not the only skill users but ok.
In 4e terms they would not include the DC that challenges the level 24 character on the chart for the level 1 lassoing a Tornado (air elemental for instance) its is indeed not even possible. So this is massively different how?

Mathematical elegance.

 

[Garthanos]

Mathematical elegance.

If I as a DM want to challenge the character in the adventure a ton or just a little while avoiding the not a challenge at all or ridiculously silly ... 4e is more elegant - but it does involve looking it up so i will give you that.