Wherefore "mini-less" D&D assumptions?

[Mark]

As for older editions, I think a certain amount of self-selection is at work. Folks who enjoyed 1E or 2E with minis are more likely to enjoy 3.X or 4E's focus on minis. I posit that those folks are thus more likely to switch to 3.X or 4E. Folks who didn't use minis in 1E or 2E are less likely to enjoy 3X or 4E's focus on minis. Those folks are more likely to keep playing earlier editions. Over time, earlier editions of the game thus become more associated with non-mini play, because the people who played them with minis have moved on.

Edit: It also seems to me that the folks who complain about 4E's focus on minis are more likely to be 1E Grognards who didn't particularly like 3.X either. I don't know that I've seen too many 3.X players complaining about the use of minis in 4E.

Interesting theory, however, here is a photo of myself, diaglo, tavis behemoth and feanor/Skach choosing some minis for his (O)D&D game last March at GaryCon I in Lake Geneva. Note that we had the Outdoor Survival board in use at this point in the game. diaglo runs (O)D&D regularly. He and I are about as close to true grognards as still walk the earth. Of course, we both started playing before 1E was even a thought and grognards are wargamers, not RPGers, so perhaps you've misposted on a few points, but I do find it interesting that maybe those who didn't use minis stuck with earlier editions, generally speaking. You might post the question at Dragonsfoot regarding minis use and see what sort of response you get there.

 

[Cadfan]

I didn't use miniatures with 3e, and neither did most people I know. We did use hastily sketched maps and notes. This worked fine as long as you didn't care about details or precision, and were ok with relying on the DM to decide things fairly.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It could be that the meme of change in reliance on minis comes from, among other things:

1. Minis being mentioned as optional, or not required in all pre-3e releases,

2. WotC's marketing data showing a good number of pre-3e players have never used minis, and/or

3. Scott Rouse's statement that 3e is more mini-centric than earlier D&D, and that he would have a hard time playing 4e without them.


RC

 

[CharlesRyan]

It seems to me that the assumption of miniatures use has always been part of D&D (see Jack Daniel's excellent post above), but, as D&D minis became a core part of the official product line in the early years of 3E, the assumption became increasingly codified within the rules.

As for my own anecdotal experience, I'm like the anti-Ari in this thread. Not only have I always preferred minis through four+ editions of D&D, but I've tended to use them for softer, less tactical games as well--everything from CoC to Vampire. I find that even for completely social scenes, putting minis out for the characters and NPCs involved gives the gaming table a focal point.

 

[Gothmog]

I started gaming back in 1983 with AD&D when I spent the night over at a friend's house and saw his brother's collection of old Grenadier D&D minis. The minis were what drew my attention initially, and what really hooked me on gaming. Until then, I had helped my dad with his model railroad, so I loved models and minis, but little figures of knights, wizards, and dragons are about a million times more awesome than a conductor or a lady with a baby carriage!

Ever since then, I've always heavily incorporated minis and terrain into my games, and I've never had a negative reaction from a player because of it. In fact, most players LOVE to have a personalized mini for their PC, and I use a ton of Dwarven Forge terrain, as well as homemade terrain I make specifically for certain events or encounters (which always draws oohs and ahhs from players). To me, the collection and painting of minis is part of the hobby as well as a hobby in and of itself, and I can't imagine gaming without them. I think 3e and 4e both assume the use of minis, which is fine with me- minis are an aid to the imagination, not a replacement for it. I really don't understand the complaint that a game "requires" minis- thats not a bad thing at all IMO.

 

[Voadam]

It seems to me that the assumption of miniatures use has always been part of D&D (see Jack Daniel's excellent post above), but, as D&D minis became a core part of the official product line in the early years of 3E, the assumption became increasingly codified within the rules.

What do you think made it more codified in the rules as time went on compared to the original PH where you have AoOs, charging in a straight line only, reach rules, etc.? Those are the elements I see that make 3e minis focused IMO compared to earlier editions, and they are there from the beginning in the core.

As for my own anecdotal experience, I'm like the anti-Ari in this thread. Not only have I always preferred minis through four+ editions of D&D, but I've tended to use them for softer, less tactical games as well--everything from CoC to Vampire. I find that even for completely social scenes, putting minis out for the characters and NPCs involved gives the gaming table a focal point.

Wow, I've never before heard of anybody using minis for a vampire game or for completely social scenes (except for some social scenes in webcomics completely done using figures I guess).

 

[jgbrowning]

I never used minis until 3e.

joe b.

 

[jaerdaph]

Minis have always been "action figures for grown ups" to me - and I do say that as a Good Thing. Star Trek and Planet of the Apes action figures (by Mego) were probably my favorite toys growing up. In high school I was obsessed with Star Wars action figures (from Kenner). I never used minis when I played 1e AD&D in high school though (we wrote "marching order" down on paper just like the core rules suggested), and we never really felt like we needed minis or were missing something without them. I recall using minis once or twice in the years I was playing 2e, but again we never felt we needed them to play. The 2e era was also when I caught the mini bug for a little while, but I was more interested in painting and collecting them - in short, what I really wanted was AD&D action figures. I sucked at painting them and eventually lost interest. During the 3e D&D era/d20 Modern era when using minis during the game actually made a lot more sense and facilitated play than it ever did in prior editions, I became obsessed with paper minis (and counters) of all kinds, and I still am. When I switched to True20, where rules and situations that minis facilitated in 3e game play were now simplified or removed from the game, I kept the minis because of my "action figure" obsession. I also used paper minis for a LUG Trek Star Trek TNG era campaign, even though the ICON system that LUG Trek used never really required or felt like it needed miniatures.

 

[Filcher]

Funny --- I owned and painted a lot of minis, but I don't them we ever used them apart from setting them up atop our character sheets at the table ("This is what my barbarian looks like.") Seems odd thinking back actually.

Used my first grid when running a 3.5 game at Gen Con. Still run "mini-less" mostly at home, but bring the grid when running for strangers at cons.

 

[Mistwell]

This calls for a pole.

What are you going to do with it, and is it a 10' pole?

I think it might call for a poll though