Which class is the most useless?

[TheLe]

Free book!

[imager]http://www.thele.com/TheLeGames/images/tn/UnorthodoxBards_tn200w.jpg[/imager]Hey folks,

Lots of interesting discussions here. I sent nearly everyone a free book, based on their vote. You all should find one of the followings for free in your emails:
NEO Monks: The Dragonlord
NEO PALADINS: The Martyr
NEO RANGERS: The Spider King
Unorthodox Bards

-The Le Games (pronounced Tay Lee Games)
on the web at www.TheLeGames.com

.

 

[Shadeydm]

I don't think any class is useless, however in my opinion both the monk and bard are what I term luxury classes. By this I mean that while either one can make significant contributions within the framework of a well run game neither is sufficient to fill the role of one of the 4 character archtypes in the typical well balanced 4 man adventuring party.

 

[jeffh]

I went Paladin, though the Monk crowd almost has me persuaded.

I couldn't imagine voting Bard because they make everyone else so much better it's frightening. Sure, Bards are fairly useless solo, and fail miserably if you try to play them like other classes (i.e. as insane psycho-killers, essentially ). But that's a case of "Doctor, doctor! It hurts when I do this!" "So don't do that, you twit!". Play them to their strengths, in the context they're obviously meant to be played in, and don't confuse lack of individual glory with lack of contribution, and you have a very solid character. But even Evil bards need to be team players to work, and it seems like some people don't know how to deal with that.

 

[Mighty Halfling]

Hey folks,

Lots of interesting discussions here. I sent nearly everyone a free book, based on their vote. You all should find one of the followings for free in your emails:
NEO Monks: The Dragonlord
NEO PALADINS: The Martyr
NEO RANGERS: The Spider King
Unorthodox Bards

-The Le Games (pronounced Tay Lee Games)
on the web at [url]www.TheLeGames.com

Darn, I knew I should have chimed in!

But since I have now, why no love for the Monk?
I've never played one or played with a fellow player who ran one. Can you expand on "what went wrong with the class"?

 

[Lorgrom]

In the groups I play with. The Bard is called the Tard. No one has been able to play one that has been useful.

 

[Fishbone]

No one? Come on, bards are damn good if you put your mind to it.
Don't come into a class with the automatic assumption that it "sucks", you're just consigning yourself to a lousy character if you do that.
Paladin the weakest? Really? I'd like to see some justification for that, they always have pulled their weight when I've seen them in action.
Edit:They've got great saves, the paladin mount is killer, Smiting is a real kick in the teeth, Lay on Hands is worth fistfuls of HP, plenty of spells that are useful later on, whats the problem?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

In play?
Most likely the Sorcerer. While good at what he/she does they are very much limited to their selection of spells. Versatility is the key to wizards, volume is the advantage of sorcerers, but a wizard has an easier time getting wands of the spells that he is likely to need over and over again than a sorcerer getting enough scrolls to mimic the wizards range of choices.

That said I still like the sorcerer, he is much easier to explain to a beginner that a wizard.

The Auld Grump

 

[megamania]

Bards are good for information gathering.... but so is a rogue.

Monks are good for.... movies and the such

Paladins are fighters with a strict moral limitation (yuck)


Bard losses but the monk is very very close. I wouldn't figured more hits on the paladin. Maybe its just my group but paladins never really worked for us.

 

[Gundark]

I see the bard is already getting early hate. So sad that so many people do not understand that it is the most powerful class in the game.

Most powerful? Not sure about that. Howeve I will agree the bard is for sure underestimated and underappreciated.

 

[GreatLemur]

Monks need a rewrite. I think they need to be split into two classes; a base non-ki-using class (20 levels) and a 10-level ki-heavy PrC that builds upon the base class. In theory, a Martial Artist 10/Monk 10 would be balanced with a Martial Artist 20. That would be nice to see.
...
It would need full BAB, more reasonable damage (eg no more than d6 or d8 base damage, because it's using its bare hands as weapons and the new Monk's Belt would mean it wouldn't need such cheese anyway, so it would be on-par with a dual-wielding light fighter, and other related rules changes). It would need less MAD, at least for the non-ki-using base class.

I like these ideas very much. The Monk's medium BAB and quasi-magical abilities always seemed wholly wrongheaded to me. Call me crazy, but precise attacks seem a little more appropriate to a martial artist than teleporting, speaking in tongues, and walking through walls.

Hell, I could even lose the ki strike abilities. I wouldn't mind having to reply on items to overcome damage resistance like the rest of the party. It's just that instead of big, shiny swords, the Monk would get gloves, or hand wrappings, or bracelets, or knuckledusters.