D&D 5E Which classes have the least identity?

[Gradine]

Okay, I'm not going to touch the class identity war thing, but....

SORCERER IS NOT BLOODLINES!!!!!! Dragon sorcerer was bloodlines, but wild magic, storm sorcery, clockwork, aberrant mind, divine soul, moon magic, and shadow magic were NEVER bloodlines.

Pathfinder was the one that went all in with sorcerer=bloodlines. D&D has not done so. There's the option that SOME sorcerers claim decent from dragons, but that was never baked in, only a suggestion, even back when sorcerer first debuted in 3e. Other options included being mentored by a dragon or bathing in dragon blood. Same thing in 4e (which even had an Elementalist name later in the edition) and 5e (more like mutants exposed to energy to make you sensitive to its manipulation).

The D&D sorcerer is defined by specializing in tapping into certain types of magical planes for an elemental mage archetype. So you end up with classic elemental magic of fire, lightning, ice, etc (dragon, storm), positive energy (divine soul), necrotic energy (shadow), far realm for mind magic (aberrant mind), chaotic planes (wild) and lawful (clockwork). Magic in dragonlance comes from the moons instead of other planes, so we have a subclass specifically made to align itself to the dragonlance moons.

Take a look at all the cool crystal magic items made specifically for sorcerer in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. They're all planar-based. You get one from the elemental planes, from the four alignment planes, from the far realm, from feywild and shadowfell. They enhance the ties for being a "fire elemntalist" or "chaos magic user" type stuff.

You want bloodline magic? That's elf, tiefling, gnome, and more. Actual species that start with magic spells as part of their package. That's different from being a sorcerer.

Sure

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As a warlock main myself, I find that a lot of dms don't know how to balance it. If the patron is demanding something new form me every couple of turns in combat, or even just every session, they become more tiresome than fun. No one enjoys being micromanaged.

I want my villain to be Voldemort, not Umbridge.

Oh, I certainly understand that it's a situation that, with a bad DM, can be a real problem. But it's led to a situation where many players want everyone to actively ignore what's in the rulebook, rather than WotC or the community coming up with standards to make it work better.

Clerics, for instance, could theoretically have the same issues, but it's been decades since many people have complained about that, because everyone has figured out that "the cleric's god is a demanding jerk" can a bummer for everyone but presumably the DM.

 

[Remathilis]

Say what you want about how Game of Thrones ended, but 90% of the characters were fighters and very few of them were boring or indistinct.

Game of Thrones didn't have clerics summoning angels, wizards lobbing meteors or paladins raining divine fire at foes. Sword guy is lame. Give them the ability to channel divinity into their strength, breathe fire like dragons, or disappear into shadows. If you can't beat them, join them.

 

[Remathilis]

Okay, I'm not going to touch the class identity war thing, but....

[emoji122]SORCERER [emoji122]IS[emoji122] NOT[emoji122] BLOODLINES[emoji122]!!!!!! Dragon sorcerer was bloodlines, but wild magic, storm sorcery, clockwork, aberrant mind, divine soul, moon magic, and shadow magic were NEVER bloodlines.

Pathfinder was the one that went all in with sorcerer=bloodlines. D&D has not done so. There's the option that SOME sorcerers claim decent from dragons, but that was never baked in, only a suggestion, even back when sorcerer first debuted in 3e. Other options included being mentored by a dragon or bathing in dragon blood. Same thing in 4e (which even had an Elementalist name later in the edition) and 5e (more like mutants exposed to energy to make you sensitive to its manipulation).

The D&D sorcerer is defined by specializing in tapping into certain types of magical planes for an elemental mage archetype. So you end up with classic elemental magic of fire, lightning, ice, etc (dragon, storm), positive energy (divine soul), necrotic energy (shadow), far realm for mind magic (aberrant mind), chaotic planes (wild) and lawful (clockwork). Magic in dragonlance comes from the moons instead of other planes, so we have a subclass specifically made to align itself to the dragonlance moons.

Take a look at all the cool crystal magic items made specifically for sorcerer in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. They're all planar-based. You get one from the elemental planes, from the four alignment planes, from the far realm, from feywild and shadowfell. They enhance the ties for being a "fire elemntalist" or "chaos magic user" type stuff.

You want bloodline magic? That's elf, tiefling, gnome, and more. Actual species that start with magic spells as part of their package. That's different from being a sorcerer.

Louder for the people in the back!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Game of Thrones didn't have clerics summoning angels, wizards lobbing meteors or paladins raining divine fire at foes. Sword guy is lame. Give them the ability to channel divinity into their strength, breathe fire like dragons, or disappear into shadows. If you can't beat them, join them.

I don't think the Hound or Brienne of Tarth would be any less memorable if there were Targaryeans breathing fire. (They might have lasted fewer episodes, though.)

 

[CleverNickName]

Oh hey, Sorcerer is a poll option now. (click)

 

[CreamCloud0]

Game of Thrones didn't have clerics summoning angels, wizards lobbing meteors or paladins raining divine fire at foes. Sword guy is lame. Give them the ability to channel divinity into their strength, breathe fire like dragons, or disappear into shadows. If you can't beat them, join them.

the existence of those things doesn't mean fighters have any less of an identity though.

 

[TwoSix]

It seems to me that people are conflating "identity" with "I like". A fighter has a very clear identity - they're the martial weapon expert who can go toe-to-toe with the bad guys without necessarily relying on supernatural abilities. To me, that's pretty clear.

That's why I voted for fighters, it's too broad of a concept to say they have a particularly strong identity, as opposed to, say, paladins.

I mean, in your own description you say "without necessarily relying". If it had a strong identity, you wouldn't need the "necessarily" caveat. Some fighters (EKs, Psi Knight, Rune Knight) DO rely on supernatural powers, other don't. The bulk of fighter's flavor comes from its subclass, not the actual class.

It doesn't lack any identity, but it's certainly the weakest out of the core classes.

 

[Oofta]

Sure, so I'd play a Lore Bard or an Arcane Domain Cleric for that.

I am not someone who want's the Wizard removed, despite it being my least favorite class. But it is a really bad class who's need for having a massive spell list that hogs so many spells for itself is so paramount that they have no other interesting or unique base class features, and most of their subclasses have maybe one feature that is truly useful or mechanically interesting.

Bards and clerics may use books but don't rely on what they learn from those books or their intellect for their power. A cleric still gets their power from their deity, a bard from their winning smile.

As far as favorite classes, I'm not getting into that argument.

 

[TwoSix]

Okay, I'm not going to touch the class identity war thing, but....

SORCERER IS NOT BLOODLINES!!!!!! Dragon sorcerer was bloodlines, but wild magic, storm sorcery, clockwork, aberrant mind, divine soul, moon magic, and shadow magic were NEVER bloodlines.

Pathfinder was the one that went all in with sorcerer=bloodlines. D&D has not done so. There's the option that SOME sorcerers claim decent from dragons, but that was never baked in, only a suggestion, even back when sorcerer first debuted in 3e. Other options included being mentored by a dragon or bathing in dragon blood. Same thing in 4e (which even had an Elementalist name later in the edition) and 5e (more like mutants exposed to energy to make you sensitive to its manipulation).

The D&D sorcerer is defined by specializing in tapping into certain types of magical planes for an elemental mage archetype. So you end up with classic elemental magic of fire, lightning, ice, etc (dragon, storm), positive energy (divine soul), necrotic energy (shadow), far realm for mind magic (aberrant mind), chaotic planes (wild) and lawful (clockwork). Magic in dragonlance comes from the moons instead of other planes, so we have a subclass specifically made to align itself to the dragonlance moons.

Take a look at all the cool crystal magic items made specifically for sorcerer in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. They're all planar-based. You get one from the elemental planes, from the four alignment planes, from the far realm, from feywild and shadowfell. They enhance the ties for being a "fire elemntalist" or "chaos magic user" type stuff.

You want bloodline magic? That's elf, tiefling, gnome, and more. Actual species that start with magic spells as part of their package. That's different from being a sorcerer.

These are all true things, but those exact examples demonstrate how incoherent the sorcerer archetype actually is in the mind of the community.

If its identity was more established, you wouldn't have had to explain any of that.