Which is better?

[James McMurray]

Ok, so I'm trying to figure out the best controlled undead to use against my party in the arena, and I'm thinking about Shadows. Of course, now I have to decide whether to advance them or not.

Finally, if you know of something better, please let me know, as I relally want to challenge my group, and when they are prepared, they can deal massive damage (i.e. the Sorcerer will be swinging for 4d8 + 58 on 6 attacks!).

Thanks!

[EDIT]
The party is:

Human Paladin / Knight of the Middle Circle 8 / 7, Touch AC ~ 17
Half-Elf Bard / True Artist / Sorcerer 8 / 6 / 1, Touch AC ~25
Half-Orc Barbarian / Fighter 1 / 13, Touch AC ~24
Aasimar Sorcerer 15, Touch AC ~21
Human Ranger / Fighter ?/? (Total 10), Touch AC ~18
Human Cleric / Ranger 14 / 1, Touch AC ~20
Human Rogue, Touch AC ~22
Dwarven Wizard 14, Touch AC ~24

They will be incredibly buffed, as they know they will be in an arena battle. Overall, any Shadow less than 9 hit dice will be annihilated i a single hit. However, unless they have much greater hit dice than the 3 minimum, they will be easily annihilated by the cleric and Paladin if they decide to turn undead. I do know though that the two undead nukers are planning on focusing on the main enemy, an 18th level Necromancer.

Of course, any ideas fora better undead to bring would be appreciated as well. Keep in mind however that an antimagic field on the part of the party is a very real possibility, so incorporeal undead are a must. After all: incorporeal creatures are immune to weapons and magic while inside an AMF. Thus they could attack the caster of the AMF with impunity, and turn him into a spawn with its own AMF.

[/EDIT]

 

[orbitalfreak]

We need a little more information. What level is the party, what is their AC's (since Shadows have a touch attack, this is important.), and what kind of spells do they have as "Standard Operating Procedure (tm)"? Also, a tally of the number of each class would be helpful.

I'll reserve my official vote until later, but for now consider this:
The more Shadows you have, the more attacks the party suffers. Since these are Incoropreal Touch attacks, there are going to be quite a large number of hits against the party. Each of these hits will drain 1d6 (2d6 on a critical??) points of strength.

Advancing a Shadow will not increase its size, so its damage won't increase. The only thing you get by advancing the Shadows are more hit points and a slightly better attack rating.

As of right now, my suggestion is 9 Shadows at 4 HD each, or 6 Shadows at 6 HD each.

 

[Storminator]

If you're worried about their ability to absorb damage, use many small creatures. If one creature has 40 hp, and a hit does 50 damage, it's dead in one hit. If two creatures have 20 hp each, and one hit does 50 damage, it takes two hits to kill both.

Counterintuitively, I find that weaker enemies are more deadly to powerful parties, assuming the total HD are the same.

PS

 

[James McMurray]

Editted the main post with some party info.

 

[Victim]

If you're worried about their ability to absorb damage, use many small creatures. If one creature has 40 hp, and a hit does 50 damage, it's dead in one hit. If two creatures have 20 hp each, and one hit does 50 damage, it takes two hits to kill both.

Counterintuitively, I find that weaker enemies are more deadly to powerful parties, assuming the total HD are the same.

PS

Except that sometimes, the 20 point creature will drop, and then a cleave attack is triggered which kills the other one.

Still, I'd use lots of weaker shadows.

 

[orbitalfreak]

Except that sometimes, the 20 point creature will drop, and then a cleave attack is triggered which kills the other one.

And don't forget area attack spells.

Final verdict: 6 shadows @ 6 HD, and consider 9 shadows @ 4 HD as an alternative. I'm split about 55-45 on the two.

 

[Archer]

Shadows cannot function within an antimagic field. 14th level cleric will finish off shadows in no time. Even 9HD is not enough to resist turning. 3-5 HD shadows will be destroyed.

Just FYI

 

[James McMurray]

Doh Hadn't noticed that the Strength drain was (Su). Anyone know of a good incorporeal undead that can deal actual damage. (and isn't poweress in the sunlight)

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I don't have my books near me, but how about slapping the ghost template on somehting nasty. Like a ghost remhoraz, ok that ones lame, but that would be my idea ghost tempalte on something nasty. Or if your not set on incorporeal creatures then a collosal skeleton, like an animated dire elephant. They will probably win but they will take some punishment the 1st round or 2. Since a dire elephant is 20hd, a dire elephant skeleton to draw their attention, with 4x4hd shadows sneaking up on them.

 

[Archer]

Let me clarify, incorporeal undead do not function (or even exist) in an anti-magic field.

You can attack out of an anti-magic field against incorporeal with missile weapons because the magic is restored when the arrow leave the field.

208 hp skeleton with 32hd is not going to be very tough. That party can take on 17 CR easily.

A nightcrawler might be tough but it has even less hps.