3PP Release Which is more intriguing?

[PJ Coffey]

A talented designer is doing a design or two and has asked me questions.

I thought it would be fun to make it someone else's problem as I'm going to do whatever anyway, but there's a Wisdom to crowds!

 

[Corinnguard]

but there's a Wisdom to crowds!

It depends on which crowds you are referring to. Not every crowd passes their Insight check.

 

[PJ Coffey]

It depends on which crowds you are referring to. Not every crowd passes their Insight check.

Well... it's not lie detection is it?

 

[Corinnguard]

Well... it's not lie detection is it?

I like to think that an Insight check deals with critical thinking. When you are either alone or with one or more other individuals, you take note of what they say or do, and compare those with what you say, do and believe in. If the actions and words of the former agree with your own, you accept them with very little in the way of critiquing and analyzing. Otoh, if the actions and words of the former significantly differ from your own, then critiquing and analyzing are more likely to happen as you try to make sense of what they say and do. It's not so much a form of lie detection as it you are asking yourself 'does this make sense to me?' If it does make sense, then you have passed your Insight check with flying colors. Cognitive dissonance, holding two or more lines of contradicting thought in your head, is likely to happen during this Insight check. I consider this skill to be a conscious one. Passive Insight is just another name for Intuition. It's when your subconscious mind tells your conscious mind that it noticed something that slipped under the latter's radar.

Did I pass my Insight check here?

 

[PJ Coffey]

Hmm, I like this. The model you're describing is I would say, technically empathy, (the predator version as in, a lion spotting a gazelle going round a bush is pretty sure there's a gazelle on the other side of that bush) and seems to be based on an Intelligence model (i.e. a construction of a theory of mind on an intellectual rather than intuitive basis). Looks like a success on Intelligence (Insight) to me.

I think Insight is something that could benefit from digging into more and defining it. But frankly I try not to get into the "Wisdom/Intelligence" "debate" too often (Wisdom, as defined in the book is about seeing what's going on in the real world about you. Intelligence, as defined in the book, is about the construction of mental models.)

But people want to debate about monks being wise etc. (Wisdom in this case referring to extensive experience and reflection and having the same route as Wise in Wise-ard (or smart-arse, but that's another story.)) and I do not.

 

[aco175]

I would want a mini-game in the 5e world that can be slipped in a campaign for a night at a festival or event. A series of olympic games can be used as a whole series or just take one of them for 15 minutes. I could have a large festival in a city where a series of games happen, or just take axe throwing and have a contest where the PCs are dealing with barbarians in the middle of another adventure.

 

[Corinnguard]

Hmm, I like this. The model you're describing is I would say, technically empathy, (the predator version as in, a lion spotting a gazelle going round a bush is pretty sure there's a gazelle on the other side of that bush) and seems to be based on an Intelligence model (i.e. a construction of a theory of mind on an intellectual rather than intuitive basis). Looks like a success on Intelligence (Insight) to me.

I think Insight is something that could benefit from digging into more and defining it. But frankly I try not to get into the "Wisdom/Intelligence" "debate" too often (Wisdom, as defined in the book is about seeing what's going on in the real world about you. Intelligence, as defined in the book, is about the construction of mental models.)

But people want to debate about monks being wise etc. (Wisdom in this case referring to extensive experience and reflection and having the same route as Wise in Wise-ard (or smart-arse, but that's another story.)) and I do not.

In Level Up, you can sometimes use another ability score to perform a skill check other than the one a skill is typically associated with. While Insight is typically tied to Wisdom in both 5e and Level Up, you can also use a Dexterity check for to interrupt an enemy's sudden action or a Strength check when squeezing an object to see how hard it will be to break. From what I just mentioned in the previous post, it would appear I managed to deduce what an Intelligence check using Insight might look like. Though would that put Insight to close to Investigation? I wonder what a Constitution check or a Charisma check tied to Insight would look like.

Btw, Lie Detection in Level Up is a Skill Specialty tied to Insight. Reading Emotions and Sensing Motives are also Skill Specialties of Insight's. A Skill Specialty is a form of specialization within a given skill. Level Up characters start out with two specialties at 1st level and gain a new one every time their PB goes up.

 

[PJ Coffey]

I would want a mini-game in the 5e world that can be slipped in a campaign for a night at a festival or event. A series of olympic games can be used as a whole series or just take one of them for 15 minutes. I could have a large festival in a city where a series of games happen, or just take axe throwing and have a contest where the PCs are dealing with barbarians in the middle of another adventure.

I am not a big sports person so it didn't even occur to me to do this, but that's some good feedback. Thanks!

 

[PJ Coffey]

In Level Up, you can sometimes use another ability score to perform a skill check other than the one a skill is typically associated with. While Insight is typically tied to Wisdom in both 5e and Level Up, you can also use a Dexterity check for to interrupt an enemy's sudden action or a Strength check when squeezing an object to see how hard it will be to break. From what I just mentioned in the previous post, it would appear I managed to deduce what an Intelligence check using Insight might look like. Though would that put Insight to close to Investigation? I wonder what a Constitution check or a Charisma check tied to Insight would look like.

Btw, Lie Detection in Level Up is a Skill Specialty tied to Insight. Reading Emotions and Sensing Motives are also Skill Specialties of Insight's. A Skill Specialty is a form of specialization within a given skill. Level Up characters start out with two specialties at 1st level and gain a new one every time their PB goes up.

It's always great to meet someone who knows the rules so well! And I do love specialties, I wish they'd been given a shout out in the character generation section.
Investigation is

actively searching, looking for clues, gathering information, experimentation, and research.

So whilst conceptually similar I guess it's for looking at things and the environment rather than creatures and their minds. Weird split eh?

Insight feels very passive to me. I really should list out which skills I feel are passive and which active. (Of course some fall in both these camps).

Perception, heretic that I am, I don't like rolling for (except possibly initiative.) That's what Investigation is for.

 

[ART!]

As neat as the martial arts option could be, rules for athletic games is something I haven't seen much of and would be a handy thing!