log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E Which monster saves are weakest: Saving throw analyzer

I made a saving throw analyzer, hope you like it: Shining Sword: Saving throw analyzer

P.S. Apologies, the Javascript file is extremely large (9 MB) so it might not work great on a phone. I suggest using it desktop/laptop only.

Edit: it's an interactive visualizer to help you see patterns in data and make better decisions about which spells to learn, what classes to play, etc. For example, if I want to know how effective Stunning Strike will be at higher level, I might look at Con saves for nonmagical attacks. Hover over a dot to see details:

1590614467076.png


That plus looking at Dex saves for mobs of low-CR creatures could influence whether I decide to play an Elemental monk or a Shadow Monk or a Sharpshooter fighter.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad



jgsugden

Hero
I ran it and looked at the output - but am not really sure what I'm looking at here. Is it an attempt to indicate what types of saves are highest for monsters at a given CR? Like, At CR 13 Dex saves tend to be really high, but Int saves are low?
 

dave2008

Legend
I made a saving throw analyzer, hope you like it: Shining Sword: Saving throw analyzer

P.S. Apologies, the Javascript file is extremely large (9 MB) so it might not work great on a phone. I suggest using it desktop/laptop only.
Wow, it has been a while since I've seen you post FH, nice to see you again! Also, I have the same question as @LordEntrails before I check it out: What is a saving throw analyzer?
 
Last edited:



What's a Saving Throw Analyzer? Surely it's not just a success/failure indicator.
I ran it and looked at the output - but am not really sure what I'm looking at here. Is it an attempt to indicate what types of saves are highest for monsters at a given CR? Like, At CR 13 Dex saves tend to be really high, but Int saves are low?
Wow, it has been a while since I've seen you post FH, nice to see you again! Also, I have the same question as @LordEntrails before I check it out: What is a saving throw analyzer?
In its current form it's for visualizing monster saves by CR. I have ambitions of enhancing it somewhat, but fundamentally it's just an interactive visualizer that can show you graphs like this one (hover over a point to see details):

1590613479480.png



Fundamentally it's designed to help you spot patterns so you can make better decisions about what spells to pick, e.g. will Web still be a good Magical Secrets ten levels later or should you just rely on Confusion for your crowd control?
 
Last edited:

Ah, well enjoy. I'm sure some folks will use it to plan out their character.

What sources are you using for your data? Is it just the SRD or...?
 

Ah, well enjoy. I'm sure some folks will use it to plan out their character.

What sources are you using for your data? Is it just the SRD or...?
All of them except the Tortle Package, by default, although you can filter (screenshot below). My data mostly comes from .md files on github spliced with spreadsheets from Kobold Fight Club, with some manual data entry from me to fill in the gaps, mostly for Rising From the Last War. Also I filtered out all the unique monsters of CR 8 and under because they were mostly just campaign-specific NPCs like Ras Nsi and the Pudding King, and I didn't think they'd be applicable nor did I want to do data entry for them. Other than that though I think it's a pretty complete list, 901 monsters in all.

1590626391781.png
 

Wow, this is absolutely fascinating, thank you.

I do wish you could cut off at CR20, or somehow reshape the table so that the higher CRs, which have so few monsters in them, took up less of the table and the lower CRs, which have so many monsters in them, took up more.

But it shows very clearly that DEX is a surprisingly great thing to target, and STR and CON are pretty bad ones, which is something I'd sensed but couldn't actually prove.
 

Hemlock

Villager
Wow, this is absolutely fascinating, thank you.

I do wish you could cut off at CR20, or somehow reshape the table so that the higher CRs, which have so few monsters in them, took up less of the table and the lower CRs, which have so many monsters in them, took up more.
You can actually, using Plotly's Zoom control to zoom in on a specific range:

1590629273210.png

1590629195184.png


However, I'm currently working on displaying encounters instead of just monsters, so you'll have a graph of (for example) what a bunch of randomly-generated 20th level encounters using Xanathar's encounter rules (pg 90) look like, from a saving throw perspective. I suspect that's more what you're interested in than just CRs 1-20. It's certainly what I'm more interested in, since mobs are actually deadlier IME than solo monsters in 5E.

But it shows very clearly that DEX is a surprisingly great thing to target, and STR and CON are pretty bad ones, which is something I'd sensed but couldn't actually prove.
It makes me happy that you're gaining new insights from the tool. Thanks for the kind words!
 


Hemlock

Villager
I made a couple of small enhancements to the saving throw analyzer:

(1) You can now analyze randomly-generated encounters under Xanathar's rules, DMG rules, or my modified DMG rules which give less unbalanced encounters for low-CR monsters, using Lanchester's 3/2 Law of Combat, which is what the DMG rules are apparently a simplified version of.

(2) You can now set tags like "Fire Damage, Save for Half" or "Charmed" on your attacks to see how that changes overall effectiveness, since some monsters are vulnerable, resistant or immune to certain attacks.

For instance, if I've set my filters to only undead, a normal Wisdom save graph would look like this:

1590859256979.png


However, if I'm contemplating a spell like Hypnotic Pattern, many undead are actually immune to being charmed and will be unaffected. To see how badly the spell is impaired against undead, I set the Effect Tag "charmed" as follows:

1590859418544.png


and you can see that the graphed effectiveness drops substantially.

Limitations: the UI is still kind of ugly. Sorry. I'm not a design expert, and I'm focused more on functionality than on getting all of the text to line up prettily on each line.

Furthermore, for technical reasons, effect tags are not available on the overview screen--you have to drill down on a specific attribute (Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha) in order to apply specific effects. I don't intend to fix this because this app has grown to a point where it's unwieldy and difficult to extend further, and because you should normally know what attribute you're interested in if you're applying a specific effect like "fire, save for half" (probably Dex).
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top