DungeonMaster said:
You aren't even integrating what I write. You merely whip off your rant with what selective portions you're imagined exist. Note carefully I said the hybrid party would cast 5th and the normal party would cast 6th. The self same situation as we've discussed for pages now.
Uh huh... You picked a single level, and then are using that
single level to prove your points while at many, many other levels, your example
doesn't work.
Because when you are casting 5th level spells, they could have 7th (one level higher) or you could only have 4th (one level lower).
The dishonesty you have is that you ignore any level but 12 for the Myth. Or for that matter, I bet you'd ignore any ODD level.
The accusations of "dishonesty" are nothing short of laughable considering all the crap you people have been trying to pull in terms of rule abuses and twistings.
Read my recent posts, you have not disproved any of it.
Wow that's a fantastic way of proving your point. "They can just roll up another X each time they get stuck". *rolls eyes*
Thats one of 3 methods. You'll notice its the only method open to a party of pre level 12 Hybrids. You know from level 9 to 11? Where the cleric has been able to raise people already? Or that teleporting to somewhere with someone ABLE to raise the dead is possible?
Versatility is power. A flesh to stone spell is worthless against an iron golem. A magical sword can do the trick.
All spellcasters have issues with Golems. This is where the wizard buffs like haste come in handy. Or greater invisibility. Or Blink. Or spells like Acid Fog that have no SR.
You have the Fighter to stand toe to toe, why try to take that role when you can make him so much better at it. And you'll never be as good at it due to HP/AC/BAB not having weapons.
Sorry Kem, versatility is power . That's the basis of 3E multiclassing, or at least it was.
It is power. But for spellcasters, specialization in
spellcasting is power is more power. The Red Wizard isn't thought to be overpowered because they get a variety of spells.
Likewise, sacrificing caster levels makes you a worse spellcaster because
it delays access to higher level spells.
And is not having 2 6th level spells worth having 2 more 4th level spells and 3 more 3rd level spells?
You cast Raise Dead, they cast Ressurection. You cast Cure Critical, they cast Heal. You cast Fireball, They cast Teleport. You cast Greater Invis, they cast Contingency. Granted on even levels its not
as bad.
I don't understand your list. You're going to have to write it out clearer. 10th what? Level, spell level?
Code:
7th : 4(Wiz +1), 3(Wiz +2), 2(Myth +2), 1(Myth +3)
7th is character level.
4 is spell level.
Wiz +1 means that the wizard has one more spell of this level then the myth.
3 is 3rd level spells.
Wiz +2 means the wizard has 2 more spells here then the myth.
The spells the Wizard has base over the myth form a very predictable pattern.
1.5 spells of of the highest the wizard can cast over you, 1 spell of the next highest the wizard can cast over you. The myth then has 2 spells over the wizard and 3 spells over the wizard for the next 2 levels.
Will do m'lady. Especially with a metamagic rod or two. And I get multiple 4th just next level and you're still at 5th. I can wait. Your 5th level magic seems pretty tame in prospect of 2 4th. Oh the shades of 2nd edition... And in a real game you'de have to pay for more high level spells too, incidentally.
Actually adding another 5th level spell. So thats 2 5th level spells, and the same number of 4t6h level spells that you have.
And those rods, can be used by the wizard just as well as by you. Please stop with the items unless it can be proven to only help one or the other.
And you get 2 spells per level for free. Thats in a real game. And thats 4 5th level spells known. And I'll take waiting to have 6th level spells while you dilly with 4th level spells. Then YOU get to wait to cast 5th while I am casting 6th.
Advantage hybrid. It's not a fair trade.
I'll take Teleport over Fireball. Raise Dead over Prayer. I'll take Wish over Limited Wish, Miracle over Ressurection. I'll take Fireball over Scorching Ray, and Heal over Cure Critical.
A Hybrid Party is versatile, but unlike 2e/1e, they don't have the output of the Normal Party.
A lone bard is arguably the most survivable class in the PHB.
Actually that would be cleric.
Specialisation is only power when you have others covering your weaknesses or you never confront your weakness.
Hence having a party of players, and not just one. The Myth (as has been admitted) is good for a party with no casters.
Versatility is ONLY power, when that versatility doesn't wash out the abilities too much to be useful. This is why the Bard is a poor replacement for a wizard or cleric. They aren't good enough casting to fill either of those rolls. They do okay replacing the rogue as long as its a social rogue.
So where does that leave the Versatility of the Bard?
Is a party of 4 bards somehow better then a Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard?
