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Which system for a Star Wars game?

eyebeams said:
Well, that's all well and good for individual games, but when it comes to the archetypal Jedi from the films, it doesn't get any closer than Obi-Wan

But we're talking about Sunglar's individual game here and he's basing it off the original trilogy. His concerns pertain to the best game system for him. Each system references the movies as closely as possible, none have Jedi Ice Breath in them.

I like D20 RCR and am optimistic about it's Saga edition. Valhalla likes True20. Sunglar will choose and use whatever system helps him best create the SW game and story he and his players will enjoy. Our varied interpretation of the movies into game terms are moot really.
 

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Diggus Rex said:
But we're talking about Sunglar's individual game here and he's basing it off the original trilogy. His concerns pertain to the best game system for him. Each system references the movies as closely as possible, none have Jedi Ice Breath in them.

I like D20 RCR and am optimistic about it's Saga edition. Valhalla likes True20. Sunglar will choose and use whatever system helps him best create the SW game and story he and his players will enjoy. Our varied interpretation of the movies into game terms are moot really.

Yeah, but it's an interesting topic! :D
 

iwatt said:
why are you making the other characters level 1? Han was a famous smuggler in one of the fastest ships in the galaxy. Chewie was a veteran warrior of the clone wars. Leia was an experienced diplomat. Don't get me started on R2 ;)

Yeah, but do you really want to run every SWRPG from level 7-10+?

In the RCR, jedi's can become Knights at level 7 IIRC, not before.

Level 1 adventures involve going out to shoot wampa rats. That's about the level of expertise they have.

I don't really care for sucking like that at 1st level in D&D either, though.

Actually, Grievous is the only one that really has to be powerful. It's not like the guards really do anything but slow down Obi-Wan. And Grievous has all the right to be high level (he hunts jedi for god's sake).

Actually, scratch my earlier estimate. Obi-Wan and Anakin are about around 16th level.
I'd say the guards are standard CR-type challenges, since they do take some time to defeat. That makes 'em about 14th-15th level. But should Grievous really by 18th-20th level? Should Dooku really be 17th-18th? It just seems kind of inelegant, *especially* if you want some of the EU prehistorical stuff, which will bump you into 20+.

Well, that is tied into how they're presented in the prequels. If you're dead set on starting at level 1, maybe you could have them start as "slow" students ;) You know, those with difficulty managaing their anger or emotions, or those with some kind of mental block.

Maybe. I wonder if Ars Magica's ability to handle characters with different power levels might be a good example to follow.
 

eyebeams said:
I don't really care for sucking like that at 1st level in D&D either, though.

Oh, I agree. I don't start many games at level 1 any more. Level 3-5 is were it's at ;)


I'd say the guards are standard CR-type challenges, since they do take some time to defeat. That makes 'em about 14th-15th level. But should Grievous really by 18th-20th level? Should Dooku really be 17th-18th? It just seems kind of inelegant, *especially* if you want some of the EU prehistorical stuff, which will bump you into 20+.

NPCs only having wound points in the RCR is very similar to the minion rule in True20. I'd peg them at 4 levels lower than obi-wan: able to attack him, but weak enough that he can drop them in one hit.
Grievous doen't need that many levels, because of his edge in physical abilities due to droid body. I'd peg him at equal ECL or even lower than obi-wan.

The fact of the matter is that obi-wan (no matter the fluff) is the best jedi out there. He beats Darth Maul. He beats Grievous, and he even beats Anakin. He deserves to be in the upper tier of jedi power, which in a class based system means he has a lot of levels. How many depends on each GM, as can be seen on any number of other fictional characters statted up (Achilles, Batman, Aragorn just to name of a few have been statted in these boards ranging from level 12 to 20).
 

eyebeams said:
I don't really care for sucking like that at 1st level in D&D either, though.
Then play True20. :D I've watched four level one characters take down, via night assault, a keep guarded by over thirty men. It was difficult and deadly but they pulled it off, even the crazy irishman that was stabbed and shot repeatedly.
eyebeams said:
Actually, scratch my earlier estimate. Obi-Wan and Anakin are about around 16th level.
I'd say the guards are standard CR-type challenges, since they do take some time to defeat. That makes 'em about 14th-15th level.
By my system, the New Hope Obi-Wan is level 16, Droidekas and Magna Guards are levels 6 and 9 respectively, Dooku is level 15 and Anakin was about level 15. I didn't stat Grievous but I suppose I could; he'd probably be level 13.
eyebeams said:
It just seems kind of inelegant, *especially* if you want some of the EU prehistorical stuff, which will bump you into 20+.
Inelegant or not, Yoda, the Emperor, and Exar Kun all came in at epic levels. 24, 24 and 35 respectively. They all work the way I think they should, able to do everything they did in the source material including lose.
eyebeams said:
Maybe. I wonder if Ars Magica's ability to handle characters with different power levels might be a good example to follow.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the mechanics of True20 easily allow a party of mixed levels to adventure together. Conviction and Toughness Saves allow for all heroic characters to be extremely cool at any level, allow all characters to be very tough, allow for a great deal of in-play flexibility through the use of Heroic Feats and Core abilities, and can allow everyone to make a significant contribution even though characters have wildly different character levels.
 

eyebeams said:
Yeah, but it's an interesting topic! :D

I guess. The characters have so much script immunity it's hard to gauge for me. Obi-Wan is able to kill Darth Maul, whom is skilled enough to kill Qui-Gon, because ... a Force point, Conviction point, Confimed crit, Maul's low toughness save? ... because he's in A New Hope. ;)
 

It is an interesting topic, and even if I am not using the prequels it gives me an idea of how the different systems interpret the characters.

So what happened to Obi-Wan and R2 in the original movies, negative levels? Energy drains? Jejeje…

On a non related note, even having many SWD6 books I got D6 Space yesterday at 85% discount (a local store is sadly going out of business and I stocked up!).

Sorry to be so brief, running errands today. I’ll chime in later.
 

Well those aging effects do hurt the physical stats (maybe -3 to STR, DEX, and Con from his AotC stats). By a Ep. IV he'd learned to fight smarter, not harder :D R2's jet's rusted? Maybe traded in for 20 years of software upgrades?

D6 Space, huh? Hope ya used some of that saved cash to buy a dozen more d6's. ;)

Revised D6 SW used similar rules. Lemme know what ya think.
 

Diggus Rex said:
Well those aging effects do hurt the physical stats (maybe -3 to STR, DEX, and Con from his AotC stats). By a Ep. IV he'd learned to fight smarter, not harder :D

Interesting you should say that...

This is from an old, old web-site with a dissertation on the fighting styles of particular Jedi and Sith:

Kenobi reminded Yoda in TESB that he had been "reckless" in his youth, and indeed he WAS!

The young Kenobi seen in the trailer and the rehearsal footage (or his stand-in) tends to use angular motions, both of the sabre and of his body. He leaps and frolics in a skilful but overly showy manner.

Young gifted swordsmen often seem this way -- they are able to take advantage of their youthful vigour, speed and flexibility to make up for what their style lacks in control. Kenobi is seem twirling his sabre like a cheerleader -- a useless and showy gesture -- when he and Jinn leap a chasm to confront Maul, Kenobi just HAS to flourish his jump with a summersault. Kenobi will have many close shaves in his fights -- only sheer reaction speed will save him time & time again.

Young swordsmen also have a lesson to learn -- they must learn to replace their speed with SKILL or their career ends at 30 (or even earlier). The body slows with age, and it must be the MIND that wins fights, not fancy moves.

We are lucky to have seen the OLD Kenobi in action as well. A man in his 60's (at least), "Ben" Kenobi uses a totally different style. He "fights for centre" -- a style that uses far less physical strength and motion, but is very deadly. The opponent must be careful as the old man is attuned to their every move and will rip them a new orifice with a lightning fast blow.

To watch Kenobi & Vader face-off was much like watching 70-90 year old Japanese kendo masters fight ... a battle of minds. They are playing chess -- with swords. Attitude and counter-attitude are put down until an opening appears.

Kenobi's straight style is more than capable of frustrating the larger and more effusive diagonal powerplay from Vader. Ben could hold him off all day long. Every wild move risks instant retaliation from the well-settled centre position.

HOWEVER: there are still some hints of the younger extravert in there ... old Kenobi employs a couple of twirls and spins, but its clear he isn't up to the performance levels of his youth. As the fight progresses, he gets tired, and is content to hold ground. He lacks the strength to get a clear shot at the massive Vader -- unless he can goad Vader into an unwise "big" attack (as he tries to do!)

Kenobi comes full circle. He was truly a master of his weapon -- but to the very end, he lacked the majesty, poise and technical excellence of QuiGonn Jinn.

[IMAGE OF KENOBI TWIRLING HIS LIGHTSABER]

An angry & frustrated Kenobi charges through a slow-to-open forcefield WITH of course, a characteristic displaced-agression TWIRL *sigh*

Here we see the ill-tempered Kenobi. He has stood waiting for a force-field to open. As soon as it retracts he charges through - clearly in a hurry ... BUT ... he has allowed his frustration and anger to get the better of him ... as he charges through he cannot help but peform his signiature one-handed sabre TWIRL (a behavioural trait called "displaced aggression") ... this twirl betrays his lack of self-control. It is a move that we shall see is not only useless, but downright dangerous!

[IMAGE OF LUKE KICKING DARTH VADER][IMAGE OF KENOBI KICKING DROIDS]

In Return of the Jedi we saw Luke unleash a sidekick at his father, the Lord Darth Vader. In The Phantom Menace we shall see Kenobi doing much the same thing. Here he is being extravagent as he kicks not one, but TWO droids.

[IMAGE OF KENOBI GETTNG PWNED BY DARTH MAUL]

So what happens when you try to use a single handed TWIRLY cut against a well balanced two-handed weapon weilded by a master such as Darth Maul? Answer: you get your butt kicked ... well, your FACE anyway! Maul unleashes a *proper* side kick against the frivolity of Kenobi. This is an expression of CONTEMPT on Maul's part. He has already won a pause of a second or so against Jinn (to his right) and turns his attention to Kenobi on his left. Kenobi begins his TWIRL move ... which leaves him open to be sliced in half ... Maul just cant help himself, and has to show Kenobi just how ineffective such moves really are ... he simply rocks back and KICKS him across the room like a rag doll!
 

Ah.

Never read this article but I've seen interviews with Nick Gilliard the chief stunt coordinator on the movies. He talks about how he had to design a style for each major character. He mentioned that Mace fights alot like Old Ben with very little wasted energy, straight-to-the-point deadly.

For all the cheesy dialogue and pomp, Lucas movies are always technically tight.
 

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