Which video games should and shouldn't influence it?

[Kobold Avenger]

One of the biggest complaints from people I game with is that to them 4e feels too videogamey, they definitely bring up the WOW comparison and state that as a reason they didn't like the feel of that edition.

But beyond WOW not are videogames are the same, even among CRPG's and some of them have good ideas about gameplay and mechanics. So which ones out there do you think should have a little bit of influence?

And which ones do you think clearly shouldn't?

 

[GameOgre]

Friggin video games!

I don't mind stealing ideas from anywhere but video games are so much more limited than tabletop games they have little to offer.

Also the two just don't share all that much in design goals.

 

[Halivar]

The whole "4E is too video-gamey" is interesting, given the sheer volume of games based on 3rd edition. I can't name a single one based on 4th.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Honestly, I don't want to see any video-game influence on the game at all. None. Had a long conversation with a friend who's a huge 4e fan (and 3e) and has worked for Monte Cook before...but he and I were of like mind that DUNGEONS & DRAGONS needs to play to its own strengths and stand on its own feet.

I never want the game to feel like a player's only options are what's in a drop-down menu ("I can talk to this guy, or attack him. If I talk to him I can talk to him about the dungeon out in the wilderness, or select GOOD BYE."). I want people to feel like they're in a living, breathing world without limits on it.

 

[Dragonblade]

Honestly, I don't want to see any video-game influence on the game at all. None. Had a long conversation with a friend who's a huge 4e fan (and 3e) and has worked for Monte Cook before...but he and I were of like mind that DUNGEONS & DRAGONS needs to play to its own strengths and stand on its own feet.

I never want the game to feel like a player's only options are what's in a drop-down menu ("I can talk to this guy, or attack him. If I talk to him I can talk to him about the dungeon out in the wilderness, or select GOOD BYE."). I want people to feel like they're in a living, breathing world without limits on it.

I agree with you, but that doesn't mean there aren't lessons you can learn from video games. Things like multi-stage boss battles, quest structure, terrain effects, etc.

Still, I could see a lot of those elements being moved to the "miniature" rules add-on that Mearls mentioned, which I expect is where you can 4e-ify your 5e game.

I strongly suspect the core game will be simple and play a lot like 1e/2e AD&D with some modern game innovations thrown in for balance. I don't see them going back to Wizards needing crossbows, for example. At least I hope not.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

I mentioned some of my thoughts on this in a post I made in another thread.

Friggin video games!

I don't mind stealing ideas from anywhere but video games are so much more limited than tabletop games they have little to offer.

Also the two just don't share all that much in design goals.

I believe that this mentality is quite wrong. You have to know what genres to look at to find the actual treasure. Dungeon Crawlers, like Wizardry and Might and Magic, and Traditional JRPGs, like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, are great sources of information. In many cases these games were designed to mimic playing D&D. Dungeon crawlers are literally dungeon crawls and most JRPGs are "adventure paths." Due to their shorter "life cycle," they have been forced to evolve at a much faster rate. We can look at how they solved and avoided various problems and then use that information to help solve or avoid problems in D&DNext.

 

[keterys]

Video games - all of them, including WoW - are a good place to look for ideas on what works and what doesn't.

Ditto card games.
Board games.
Improv theater dynamics.

Good ideas are good ideas, and prejudice against a particular source isn't a good reason to ignore them.

A lot of people who complained about it being too videogamey or too like wow didn't speak from a position of actual knowledge about the game, either. They knew what they didn't like when they saw it, regardless of whether it was true or not. In many cases, the things complained about were ideas that originated in dnd or other trpgs, then moved to mmorpgs later. WoW is the 900-lb gorilla, so it gets the blame - I hardly ever saw people complaining about the eurogame influence on 4e, though

Though my favorite example really was the guy who slammed 4E for magic missile clearly copying the WoW Mage's Arcane Missiles spell.

 

[SKyOdin]

I think there is plenty that D&D can learn from videogames. After all, there are tons of videogames that have been built from the basic framework and ideas D&D originally laid down, and over the years they have advanced remarkably. While video games and tabletop games are very different beasts with different needs and problems, there is still a lot of good ideas to be gleaned from looking at various videogames.

For example (inspired by another thread topic), let's look at how the PS3 action RPG Demon's Souls handles equipment swapping. In Demon's Souls, a character can equip up to two items for each hand at a time, allowing the player to swap between weapons mid-battle. For example, a character could equip a spear in his right hand, with a longsword as a backup, a shield in his left hand, with a magic wand as a back-up. All four of these items add to the player's equipment burden (which is separate from the item burden of the random stuff in the player's backpack). Furthermore, players can freely swap between holding both equipped weapons and two-handing their main weapon. In play, this system means a Demon's Souls player has a lot of freedom to adjust his weaponry in a fight, but is still reasonably restricted. They can't pull out a bow from their backpack on the fly, for example.

While there will undoubtably be some differences based on the needs of the game, there might be something to learn from this in regards to how D&D handles swapping weapons mid-battle.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I believe that this mentality is quite wrong. You have to know what genres to look at to find the actual treasure. Dungeon Crawlers, like Wizardry and Might and Magic, and Traditional JRPGs, like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, are great sources of information. In many cases these games were designed to mimic playing D&D.

As you say, crpg were designed to mimic rpgs. So why borrow something one step removed? Look to the source of the information, not an imperfect medium such as video games. I like video games, I play them WAY more than I should, but I don't want my D&D to resemble them, even the slightest bit. An inspiration borrowed from AD&D, implemented in WOW, changed so it fits the video game medium, stolen back from WOW, and hacked to fit back into 5e will look like a photograph copied so many times that you can't tell who the subject of the original photo was.

 

[Mark CMG]

Which video games should and shouldn't influence it?

None. Video games (those that claim to have RPG elements) are a derivative of tabletop roleplaying games that because of their limitations need to eschew face-to-face tabletop roleplaying aspects from their games. What D&D needs to do as a roleplaying game is focus on the aspects that can make it a great face-to-face tabletop roleplaying game. IMO, video games are not the place to find what D&D needs going forward.