While we're flipping things...
- Thread starter Cadfan
- Start date
blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
Foreshadowing that's frequently followed by, "I cast Shield". *grin*
-blarg
-blarg
Cadfan said:
My preferred fix is not to roll them at all. If you have something big enough to hide behind, you automatically succeed in hiding. If not, you fail. If something is visible & you have line-of-sight on it, you automatically spot it. If not, you fail to spot it.
These things need mechanics & die rolls even less than Profession does.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
Interesting idea, but I think its an issue easily solved by having the DM just write down the spot check bonus for each PC and then they can just make the roll behind the screen. It would also be adding a layer of complexity that does not need to be there. Suddenly you this one skill that operates differently than the other skills the PCs have.
The static DC idea also still has the problem of the DM asking his players for their Spot DC. That would alert them that something is up just like the DM asking for their bonus. No matter what, the DM still should get their modifier before play begins.
Plus sometimes its fun to ask the players to roll because its an easy way for a DM to add tension and suspense to an encounter. I like doing that because it makes them nervous and they wonder what they are not seeing. Sometimes I have them roll even when there is nothing to spot, and tell them their characters feel like something is watching them...![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Also I think one of the driving philosophies of 4e design is that the actor/initiator is the one who rolls the dice, hence the whole "flipping" of saves into defenses. I really like this philosophy actually.
The static DC idea also still has the problem of the DM asking his players for their Spot DC. That would alert them that something is up just like the DM asking for their bonus. No matter what, the DM still should get their modifier before play begins.
Plus sometimes its fun to ask the players to roll because its an easy way for a DM to add tension and suspense to an encounter. I like doing that because it makes them nervous and they wonder what they are not seeing. Sometimes I have them roll even when there is nothing to spot, and tell them their characters feel like something is watching them...
Also I think one of the driving philosophies of 4e design is that the actor/initiator is the one who rolls the dice, hence the whole "flipping" of saves into defenses. I really like this philosophy actually.
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Primitive Screwhead
First Post
I might use this thought in my next game.. the characters get ambushed while already in combat and it wouldn't be any fun to be rolling spot checks every round until the critter that is sneaking up to them is close enough to launch its attack. It would be much simpler to roll a set of Hide checks for the critter and use the 'Take 10' option for the PCs spot checks.
Maybe with an additional rule of allow a Spot Check done as part of a move action, the players gets to roll but will not get less than their Take 10 result ?
This would allow the use of action points and represent extra cautious characters.
Maybe with an additional rule of allow a Spot Check done as part of a move action, the players gets to roll but will not get less than their Take 10 result ?
This would allow the use of action points and represent extra cautious characters.
Logan_Bonner
First Post
Way ahead of you. 
RPG_Tweaker
Explorer
Dragonblade said:
I keep a action sheet of the players' vital statistics. I need not ask them for any of these numbers for my secret rolls.
It's the player's responisibility to inform me of any positive changes during play for such things as activated items or spell buffs.
F4NBOY
First Post
Something we once tested in our games: when you used a skill passively, we considered you took a ten, just like AC.
You only rolled when you actively used the skill.
So if anyone wanted to hide from you, he rolled his hide check against your spot modifier + 10. Same with Listen, sense motive, and most of the skills you could use passively. The GM had all these numbers recorded, so it made thigs a lot faster and solved the problem the OP mentioned.
You only rolled when you actively used the skill.
So if anyone wanted to hide from you, he rolled his hide check against your spot modifier + 10. Same with Listen, sense motive, and most of the skills you could use passively. The GM had all these numbers recorded, so it made thigs a lot faster and solved the problem the OP mentioned.
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The Grackle
First Post
Sounds good to me. players always end up making a bajillion spot and listen checks a game, and I wouldn't mind cutting it out.
You could always flip it back when a player says he stops to listen or look around. Actively spotting.
You could always flip it back when a player says he stops to listen or look around. Actively spotting.
I just make a habit of having players roll random spot checks at random times. Needed or not.
My players fear the words "Everything appears perfectly normal." It could mean they missed something, or missed nothing.
My players fear the words "Everything appears perfectly normal." It could mean they missed something, or missed nothing.
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