Whirlwind Attack and 5-foot step

[AGGEMAM]

the five foot step comes before or after a full round action, not in the middle of.

Oh really?

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).

 

[Crothian]

That's an interesting change from 3.0 never noticed that before

 

[AGGEMAM]

That's an interesting change from 3.0 never noticed that before

It's not a change at all. Trust me the below is a quote from the 3.0 SRD.

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all a character's effort during a round. The only movement a character can take during a full- round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. A character can also perform free actions. Some full-round actions do not allow a 5-foot step.

 

[IceBear]

I wouldn't allow it as I stated before

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

It's one attack (just many dice rolls) so you don't get to whirlwind 6 guys and then move up to get another 3. You start your attack and then finish it. You can move before or after but not during. If you were going to make 3 seperate attacks as a FRA, sure, you could move 5ft between any two attacks with no problem.

Just my interpretation of the rules and how I would rule it. I can equally see someone saying a FRA is a FRA so I can move 5ft during it. It just feels wrong to me with respect to how I see WWA, but probably not really unbalancing

 

[Ovinomancer]

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats

You could also read this as multiple attacks, just one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach only.

 

[IceBear]

Yes, but I would also read that as within reach at the time you decide to use the feat not those within reach now plus those within reach after I take a 5ft step. Again, I remember this question a few years ago and it's clouding my judgement now. I don't even know if I remember it correctly from before

As I said, I can see the reasoning for allowing it via the rules, and it probably wouldn't make the feat overpowering to allow it. I just read it as allowing you to make a sudden flurry of attacks at everyone within range when you decide to use it. To allow someone to kill everyone around them, move 5ft and then kill some more really *feels* like two attacks and I guess that's what bothers me, but I can see how people could read that from the rules and I couldn't say "You're wrong!". All I can say is that it *feels* wrong to me. And yes, I could envision the fighter swinging mightily killing everone and then allowing momentum to carry him into the next square and continue to swing. It just feels like two attacks to me.

 

[Legildur]

Whirlwind Attack is so much more than simply attacking a swathe of creatures surrounding you.

I have an elven fighter/paladin with the Whirlwind Attack chain. Not only is Spring Attack a great feat for nullifying opponent's full attacks, but I've been having great success in using Combat Expertise to boost AC and then just whittled away at 2 opponents with Whirlwind Attack.

In fact, anytime where you don't need to concentrate on just one opponent, and particularly if one of them have a high AC and your 2nd iterative attack is not likely to hit, you can have 2+ attacks at your highest BAB, albeit spread around rather than concentrated.

Anyway, I've used it in that situation a few times now. Sort of like a Flurry of Blows I guess, but just not against one opponent.

 

[IceBear]

Whirlwind Attack is so much more than simply attacking a swathe of creatures surrounding you.

I have an elven fighter/paladin with the Whirlwind Attack chain. Not only is Spring Attack a great feat for nullifying opponent's full attacks, but I've been having great success in using Combat Expertise to boost AC and then just whittled away at 2 opponents with Whirlwind Attack.

In fact, anytime where you don't need to concentrate on just one opponent, and particularly if one of them have a high AC and your 2nd iterative attack is not likely to hit, you can have 2+ attacks at your highest BAB, albeit spread around rather than concentrated.

Anyway, I've used it in that situation a few times now. Sort of like a Flurry of Blows I guess, but just not against one opponent.

Yes, that's a good point, and I didn't mean to imply that was the only use for the feat. What's your take on the 5ft step during the WWA?

 

[BSF]

I've always thought it was kind of weird that Spring Attack is a prerequisite to Whirlwind Attack, but that you couldn't move when you were attacking. Though, it has never come up in a game, so I don't have any experience with it.

I would probably be just a bit wonky about it and require that you move before you complete your attack sequence. So, you couldn't attack all 8 opponents around and then move, you would have to move sometime between opponent 1 and 8, which might put you out of reach to attack everyone that was near you initially.

Of course, I am also a sucker for a good RP description. If I had a player that could describe what the PC was doing during the Whirlwind Attack to continue the attack during the movement, I would probably let them try it.

 

[Creeperman]

I've always thought it was kind of weird that Spring Attack is a prerequisite to Whirlwind Attack, but that you couldn't move when you were attacking. Though, it has never come up in a game, so I don't have any experience with it.

That's why you take nine levels of Weapon Master (Sword & Fist) for Ki Whirlwind. Great fun there, before they limited it to once a round, Haste notwithstanding.