Whirlwind Great Cleave?

[Delgar]

I'm pretty sure that summoned creatures are ALLIES and that by attacking them your not really using the feat as intended. Clearly a player is try to twist the rules by doing so. Trying to squeeze out something that really isn't there. If a player wishes to try something like that you can:

A) House Rule it. It shouldn't need a house rule but if a player insists then do so.

B) Use the same tactic against the players, pehaps they will see the cheeze involved in it.

C) Get rid of the offending player and play with people who want to play the game, not break it.

Delgar

There is nothing in the feat that assumes the enemy is taking up a full square. And even if there was, it's still insanely good. A wiz can summon a bunch of lame-os and have them surround his buddy the fighter. The fighter will move from having one attack at his best BAB against the Big Bad to three or four or even more. When the party fighter is now doing 100pts of damage a round against the Big Bad instead of just 20 . . . you'll see how cheesy it is.

 

[Number47]

d) You can attack your allies, even whirlwind them, but not cleave.

 

[Delgar]

Yes you can attack your allies, but some logic does need to be applied to the game.

You should not be able to attack your allies to gain a benefit against your foes. It doesn't make any logical sense. By allowing it in the game your allowing Meta-Gaming to out-weigh some semblence of logic. Perhaps alignment issues will have to come up, perhaps dieties will dislike you using their creations as fodder, but the behavior needs to be curbed.

I like the shoot one player an hour until they respect your athority stand-point myself.

Delgar

 

[The Souljourner]

Whirlwind/Great Cleave works. It just does. Why? because the rules say so. And people bring up the bucket of snails problem, and try to nerf Whirlwind Attack. Wha...? The problem is not whirlwind attack. If a fighter wants to kill all snails within 5' of himself, I say go for it. The problem is cleave/great cleave. Why do you get an attack at someone else if you "drop" a guy you're attacking? It doesn't make sense. However, it is a kinda neat feat for when you need to wade through crappy guys to get to the boss, so we just suspend our disbelief for the sake of the cool idea of an awesome fighter carving through weenies like a hot katana through butter.

If you don't want people to be able to summon guys and then WWGC through them, then don't allow it. It's obviously metagaming, and you should just flat out not let your players do it.

-The Souljourner

 

[Legildur]

Number47:

Not to mention, that although everyone always pictures a Whirlwind as being surrounded by eight foes, that will almost never happen. Three foes, four if you're lucky.

Mmm. My 8th elven Fighter tumbled into a position (also used Expertise and Fighting Defensively to help out), and then used WWA against 5 bug creatures (I still don't know what they were, but they had a +15 attack bonus with their tridents), and he almost didn't live to regret it).

But the WWA cleaned up nicely with the help of a Fireball on my position (had fire resistance 10 and good Reflex save to help).

 

[gtJormungand]

from the SRD
Whirlwind Attack [General]
Prerequisites: Int 13+, Expertise, Dex 13+, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4 or higher, Spring Attack.
Benefit: When the character performs the full attack action, he or she can give up all regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at the full base attack bonus against EACH opponent within 5 feet.

This SRD defines the feat well enough, I've just highlighted out the relevant word in the description.

 

[Firzair]

Hi,
IMC I allow the combination of WWA and greater cleave, but every cleave automatically targets the next target in row. Same goes for cleaving without WWA, your cleave attack has to be used against the target you want to attack next, not some target totaly out of line.

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Murrdox]

I think so far the best idea I've heard for this is that each opponent can only cleave to a given target once per round - if you get to cleave again, you have to pick another target.

 

[isoChron]

We houseruled that Great Cleave only grants a certain number of cleave attempts:

BAB/2 (rounded up) cleaves per round.

Voila, no more "I kill all 50 bats/snails/other-unfortunate-animals in 6 seconds".

Works well so far.

Fighter 11 gets 6 Cleaves per round (additional to his regular attacks) as long as he drops enough opponents.

But it's just a houserule. Let's wait and see if they address the poor snails in 3.5.

Bye

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It's simple: You allow it. It won't break the game. And as soon as some player gets silly ideas, make sure his character dies a messy death. That always stops them silly buggers dead in their tracks. When they want to go Discworld with the game, remember that Discworld gods tend to go around smashing atheists windows and everyone who says he doesn't believe in gods is struck down with a lightning bold with the message "We are real" attached to it....