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White Wolf and CCP merge...
- Thread starter Cergorach
- Start date
GreatLemur
Explorer
Well, that's a marriage made in Limbo. Even ignoring their vastly different platforms, I'd be hard pressed to find two games more extravagantly mismatched than EVE and World of Darkness. It's easy to imagine what a WoD MMO might be like . . . unless CCP is making it. I really don't know what to think about this.
Cedric
First Post
GreatLemur said:
I would imagine that each company is supposed to be bringing its strengths to the table. CCP is very familiar with the technology, network and server side of all of this. Meanwhile, White Wolf studios is one of the best groups of designers and writers available.
If they can build a bridge to unite their two strengths, which ultimately is what any merger is about, then they have an opportunity to succeed wonderfully.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
We're agreeing. I'm saying that WoD tabletop isn't going anywhere, but evidenced by the strong enthusiasm the world has with the most low-tech way of gaming of all: LARP.Umbran said:Both things can be popular at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. The growth of one does not imply decline of the other.
Heck, I know some folks who do both - play CRPGs and LARP! Mutants though they may be...
I see this as a good example of synergy. Each company excels at something, and by joining forces and maintaining separate focuses, each gets to take the others intellectual property in new directions. CCP is flush with money, 130K (as cited earlier in the thread) subscribers X 14.95/month fee = $1,950,000 per month. Thats a nice stack of bills!
What CCP brings to the table
CCP is a strong and independent studio who has great experience developing a non-standard MMORPG game. They have learned many lessons in the past few years, and are an exception in a MMO market where games usually decline after their second year. EVE has not peaked yet, and continues to innovate. This is a good thing.
CCP holds the technical experience to develop and launch a successful MMORPG that does not follow the standard path. Now it's time to expand and do a second game. This only makes sense as they can garner a second set of customers and extend profits while they try something new. Obviously it's foolish to do another space game. Equally foolish would be to try to do a standard fantasy MMORPG -- that's a crowded space already. Why not find an intellectual property that is strong enough to work in tabletop RPG's, LARP's, film (Underworld), TV, and computer RPG's.
What White Wolf brings to the table
White wolf is a strong and independent RPG game maker with a very popular setting, lots of experience in making RPG's, and a need for new settings to expand on their audience. Moreso than any other RPG company, WW has managed to not only make their own claim for space in the RPG marketplace, but also totally own that space such that others immitate them. White Wolf knows RPG's.
Nobody has done an overtly successful space based RPG in years -- if ever depending on who you ask. 40K rules the miniatures scene, but few get together to roleplay. Traveller, Star Fronteirs, Alternity, Gama World, and more all have come and gone but never really delivered a Sci-Fi experience to a large audience. Cyberpunk/Shadowrun both go in directions outside the core Sci-Fi ethos and Star Wars and Star Trek games are a license that WW isn't likely to get. Grabbing onto an established space licence with over 100K fans is a good thing for White Wolf -- check how many products many indy publishers sell and the numbers add up to good.
How it all comes together
CCP develops a World of Darkness MMORPG. If we are lucky they stay with the lessons of EVE and create a game in which organizations matter, territory matters, and the conflict and economy are intertwined. It's not a game where you kill rats and then kill bigger rats in dragon skins. EVE is a very complex game done well, and the World of Darkness will need the same kind of treatment, as a WoD MMORPG where you kill monsters and gain EXP will not do the title justice. Meshing the setting that needs more attention with a developer known to give superior attention to a unique game concept and you have a winner.
An EVE game? Sounds great to me! It's a unique setting with complex narrative opportunities. Further, the mythos is well established and the 'story' hooks a GM can grab from the player stories within the game are great. Lots of compelling reasons to adventure in such an RPG, and also equal options to do LARP's in the EVE setting...
It's a great fusion of two good companies who know how to deliver the goods in their own niche -- and (on paper here) have agreed to share resources but stick with what they are good at. That's a good thing.
The power of numbers
Then there is the fact that each half of the larger company will feed the other 'new users' through the projects. If even just 10% of the EVE Players discover the WoD RPG's, and a similar number of RPG players jump into EVE -- the company wins.
I'm very excited. White Wolf now has access to more cash than ever, and their licenses will only grow stronger...
Mind you, I've never played EVE beyond a simple peek or two -- and the last time I played Vampire it was 1992. I just see a very good business opportunity here for both companies -- one that rewards the fans.
What CCP brings to the table
CCP is a strong and independent studio who has great experience developing a non-standard MMORPG game. They have learned many lessons in the past few years, and are an exception in a MMO market where games usually decline after their second year. EVE has not peaked yet, and continues to innovate. This is a good thing.
CCP holds the technical experience to develop and launch a successful MMORPG that does not follow the standard path. Now it's time to expand and do a second game. This only makes sense as they can garner a second set of customers and extend profits while they try something new. Obviously it's foolish to do another space game. Equally foolish would be to try to do a standard fantasy MMORPG -- that's a crowded space already. Why not find an intellectual property that is strong enough to work in tabletop RPG's, LARP's, film (Underworld), TV, and computer RPG's.
What White Wolf brings to the table
White wolf is a strong and independent RPG game maker with a very popular setting, lots of experience in making RPG's, and a need for new settings to expand on their audience. Moreso than any other RPG company, WW has managed to not only make their own claim for space in the RPG marketplace, but also totally own that space such that others immitate them. White Wolf knows RPG's.
Nobody has done an overtly successful space based RPG in years -- if ever depending on who you ask. 40K rules the miniatures scene, but few get together to roleplay. Traveller, Star Fronteirs, Alternity, Gama World, and more all have come and gone but never really delivered a Sci-Fi experience to a large audience. Cyberpunk/Shadowrun both go in directions outside the core Sci-Fi ethos and Star Wars and Star Trek games are a license that WW isn't likely to get. Grabbing onto an established space licence with over 100K fans is a good thing for White Wolf -- check how many products many indy publishers sell and the numbers add up to good.
How it all comes together
CCP develops a World of Darkness MMORPG. If we are lucky they stay with the lessons of EVE and create a game in which organizations matter, territory matters, and the conflict and economy are intertwined. It's not a game where you kill rats and then kill bigger rats in dragon skins. EVE is a very complex game done well, and the World of Darkness will need the same kind of treatment, as a WoD MMORPG where you kill monsters and gain EXP will not do the title justice. Meshing the setting that needs more attention with a developer known to give superior attention to a unique game concept and you have a winner.
An EVE game? Sounds great to me! It's a unique setting with complex narrative opportunities. Further, the mythos is well established and the 'story' hooks a GM can grab from the player stories within the game are great. Lots of compelling reasons to adventure in such an RPG, and also equal options to do LARP's in the EVE setting...
It's a great fusion of two good companies who know how to deliver the goods in their own niche -- and (on paper here) have agreed to share resources but stick with what they are good at. That's a good thing.
The power of numbers
Then there is the fact that each half of the larger company will feed the other 'new users' through the projects. If even just 10% of the EVE Players discover the WoD RPG's, and a similar number of RPG players jump into EVE -- the company wins.
I'm very excited. White Wolf now has access to more cash than ever, and their licenses will only grow stronger...
Mind you, I've never played EVE beyond a simple peek or two -- and the last time I played Vampire it was 1992. I just see a very good business opportunity here for both companies -- one that rewards the fans.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
To be fair, no MMORPG released in the last three years has done this and I think even EQ1 (which was once the biggest offender in this regard) is getting away from it.grimwell said:
If you meant a model in which killing stuff isn't the way in which characters will advance ... well, the WoD uses that model, too. I can't imagine that's going away. People will play the game in large part to turn into a big freaking werewolf and tear the head off of creatures from beyond reality or to slash open the throats of ghouls working for rival vampires.
The other stuff can be encouraged, but it'd be hard to mandate.
Was just making analogy. If you take any of the standard MMORPG's out there and reduce the experience they deliver to the lowest common denominator the games are about killing a bag of experience that drops loot. As you acquire more loot, experience, levels, and power, the bags get bigger and harder to beat but the fundamental game play involved is essentially the same.Whizbang Dustyboots said:
EVE offers something different than this. Bear in mind I'm playing EQII right now so I obviously like the fantasy MMORPG concepts, but still, when I think about the World of Darkness it's not about a game that focuses on experience and character levels -- it's about the setting, story, and your (the player) place in it.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I will be pleasantly shocked if the WOD MMORPG doesn't end up having a strong XP component to it. Sitting around, drinking goblets of blood and making snide remarks about other vampires' taste in clothes might be fun in LARP, but a lot of players are going to want kewl powerz, and WOD gives that to them by killing things and taking their ... blood.
Cergorach
The Laughing One
Eve-Online handles XP in a different matter from most MMORPGs, every second you gain XP (even offline) which can be used to increase your skills. Vampire doesn't award based on creatures slain, it rewards XP on involvement, same goes for Eve-Online (the longer you are a player the more advanced you become). For Eve that is a good thing because it can be rather complex if you want to learn every nook and cranny of the game.Whizbang Dustyboots said:
Combat in Eve is often the result of PvP (people pirating or defending territory). You can be attacked by npc 'pirates' while your mining. You can be sent on missions that require you to kill npc units or defend while doing your mission (picking up someone/something). Rewards are often loot, 'mission points' that can be used to aquire certain things and status increase with the npc that sent you on the mission (and the parent corporation). WoD Online could implement something similar...
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I know all of this about EVE.
I'm still betting the WOD MMORPG doesn't work that way.
I'm still betting the WOD MMORPG doesn't work that way.
