White Wolf and CCP merge...

[grimwell]

CCP didn't aim low and hope for moderate success -- they built the best game they could possibly make (at that time) and then hoped for the best. When the game came out and the numbers made themselves clear CCP merely aligned their business to match their reality (I have no insider information...) Then they made necessary tweaks and changes to the game and built a strong community and explored other avenues for the IP (magazine, and now CCG's).

Looking at Bruce's numbers at MMOGchart tells a good story of things, but don't assume that the smaller players are failing to make a profit. You have to consider the cost to make the game (in it's time) and then do the math on the subs. You will find that most MMORPG's turn a profit, even the ones with small numbers. The ones that don't are removed from the market (Motor City Online, Asheron's Call 2, Majestic, etc.).

Most of the 'losses' endured my MMO companies is endured prior to release when the companies involved decide that they don't have enough to derive a profit and just quit.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

CCP didn't aim low and hope for moderate success -- they built the best game they could possibly make (at that time) and then hoped for the best.

Exactly. Repeating the same process and expecting a different result is wildly irresponsible when the probable result (moderate success or less) is the company taking a long time to recoup their investment. Couple that with a bad year or two for pen and paper gaming (which one would be a fool to bet against), and the merged company could find themselves having to lay people off.

They cannot just do EVE with fangs. They have to aim higher.

Looking at Bruce's numbers at MMOGchart tells a good story of things, but don't assume that the smaller players are failing to make a profit. You have to consider the cost to make the game (in it's time) and then do the math on the subs. You will find that most MMORPG's turn a profit, even the ones with small numbers. The ones that don't are removed from the market (Motor City Online, Asheron's Call 2, Majestic, etc.).

I've worked for a company that launched an MMORPG you all know. The math, even for an extremely successful game, is a lot harsher than most people realize. Operating expenses on these sorts of games are insane and many of them have to be paid for up-front, like building a server farm. If the game is a bigger success than expected, they'll suddenly have to buy a lot more servers quickly (and thus, more expensively). If it's not as successful as expected, they wasted a whole lot of money on depreciating hardware.

I'm not sure why the EVE folks are getting upset about this: EVE is a good game and well-loved by its players. But it's not EverQuest I, it's not World of Warcraft, it's not even Dark Age of Camelot.

If the new company simply takes EVE, gives it a black outfit and mood lighting, they better pray everything goes right with the launch:
* From not having to launch head-to-head with a game that gets more publicity,
* Graphics that are both good enough to look comparable to other products being released at the time but not so high-end that they push away people with low-end computers,
* Promotion that convinces the WOD players (past and present) who have never paid a monthly fee for a game and don't understand why it's necessary (dig through ENWorld to find people outraged about DDO charging a monthly fee, for instance),
* And, of course, the basic stuff of no game-stopping bugs,
* Server stability (the EVE model of having everyone in the same "universe" isn't going to work in the WOD setting, unless there's some city out that's 100 percent supernatural), so that's a challenge they haven't fully faced yet and, the biggest one ...
* Getting the WOD "right" for tens of thousands, hopefully hundreds of thousands of customers, some of whom will not have played the NWoD, some of whom will be LARP players with different expectations from the tabletop crowd and many of whom will have playstyles that range from Anne Rice pastiches to the Matrix.

I will be buying this game, but I think it's far from a slamdunk. Look at the apparent mess that's being made of the Lord of the Rings license, for instance.

 

[Mycanid]

Personally, I don't think they're going to die any more than they already are. There will always be a contingent looking to get together, tell stories, roll dice, and crack jokes in person instead of online. It just won't be very large, and hasn't been tremendously large in 20 years.

Amen to that sir.

Interesting that this is a thread that has four moderators that have posted in it. Haven;t seen that in a while....

 

[Mark CMG]

I had a friend who used to play in a RealTime WoD online game but he said it stalled out a lot because it was faster for most people to type "rock" than "scissors" . . .

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

A lawyer who has participated in the negotiations can be found over at the Steve Jackson Games Forums.

From his comments, it does sounds as if the social aspects of the game will be at least as important as the combat ones. CCP has an unconventional approach to online games, and an unconventional approach might just be what is needed here. And apparently they are successful enough to have money to spare - and this also means they have the experience to create a new, successful MMORPG as well. So personally, I am not worried about the future of either WW or CCP.

(Oh, and I think it's cool that White Wolf is now owned by an Icelandic company...)

 

[Nightfall]

Whiz is right. The agenda of any company is to make money as much if not more than the other guys in the field. Just look at the Golden Age and Silver Age of Video games to prove that point. The only reason XBOX isn't being kicked is because that's barely a 1/3 of Microsoft's revenue. Meaning that unlike Sony or even Nintendo, they don't need to rely on it to keep up.

 

[Imagicka]

This is yet another step down the road toward the death of table top rolplaying games, I fear. Sigh. -- This isn't about selling of souls. It's about a paradigm shift.

Personally, I don’t see what the problem is. Up until a year ago, I never even heard about Eve-Online. Only when I was talking about what I felt was lacking in a true-immersive MMoRPG at a gaming convention did anyone tell me the game; and I thought I knew about every MMoRPG that was out there. It was completely under my radar.

I think that this can only be a good thing for Eve-Online. Any kind of exposure that is going to introduce new players to Eve through roleplaying… or for that matter… introduces players from Eve to Table-Top gaming… is good. There is no such thing as bad press. Though there has always been, and always will be, a paradigm shift as computers and graphics get better… I can see someone perceiving that online VR games such as this take away something from Table-Top gaming. Perhaps one day we will have an online RPG that allows for DM to build/design dungeons/settings on the fly… or at least draw from a large pool of maps; to be able to run a proper, well organized RPG, to simulate the table-top experience.

The only thing missing from computerized RPGs is the ability to have an active GM governing the game such that the players can truly affect the universe, and they aren’t just sitting around waiting for something to happen, and can participate in well-designed adventures.

Now, where the table-top experience I find highly superior to any online game, mostly because it’s (hopefully) organized, planned, and there is a sense of comradiery and fun that you don’t get from a more immersive online game. (Though I’m not saying that you can’t cultivate that kind of thing online, it’s just easier at a table, with friends.)

 

[Nightfall]

Not to mention unlike online games, it's easier to make fun of someone if you know them personally and not just their "online" persona.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Is this supposed to be oWoD or NWoD?

I suppose if they wanted to go down the FRPG route, they could make a decent MMORPG out of Exalted.

Brad

 

[Nightfall]

Cig,

Yeah well not holding my breath.