White Wolf and CCP merge...

[Cergorach]

I know all of this about EVE.

I'm still betting the WOD MMORPG doesn't work that way.

Why wouldn't it? I'm pretty certain that they'll be using the Eve code*, why would they want to create a whole new way of aquiring XP when there's already an excellent method available...

* It's mentioned that CCP is working on walking around on stations, this in turn is confirmed by Eve personel who mentioned that it's the basis for a WoD platform.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why wouldn't it? I'm pretty certain that they'll be using the Eve code*, why would they want to create a whole new way of aquiring XP when there's already an excellent method available...

Because EVE, for all its positive qualities, is really at the back of the pack of successful MMORPGs. Few companies are going to launch a new product and aim for "moderate success." The paradigm of kill stuff to gain kewl powers is the one that's had the most traction in the marketplace and I suspect the decision-makers will want that to be at least a significant component of how WODMMORPG works.

I don't think anyone expects World of Warcraft numbers (even Blizzard didn't), but shooting for something more successful than EVE is a must, if the game is going to be worth investing the capital. Even using existing components (although a lot of it is going to be inevitably built from scratch, so that CCP can build on what they've learned instead of having to live with things they'd rather have done differently), developing an MMORPG takes a lot of time and a lot of money.

<---- has actually worked at a company that's done just that

 

[CleverName]

Why does it have to be about tabletop dying? Comics being turned into movies, now that the technology makes it look good, isn't about comics dying, it's about taking a good property developed in one medium and running with it in another.

I agree.

Steve Jobs once said that Apple's success is not and must not be tied to Microsoft's failure. He was and is correct. If you construct an us-vs.-them scenario with PnP vs. Video well, it's going to look bleak. It's also a false dilemma. While there are obviously some folks who gave up PnP for the convenience of video games -- that number is no where NEAR the majority of Video game players. If video games disappeared tomorrow, the overwhelming majority of players would not switch to PnP.

It's also about a company having one wing that does PnP very well and another that does MMO's very well -- and a lot of talent that can spawn ideas for both.

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah well Steve Jobs also thought stealing was a good idea too. Too bad Bill beat him to the punch.

In any case I agree with Henry about the fate of Table top RPGs. It's entirely in our hands folks. So what I'm more against is seeing WW take more and more of the pie and leave less and less for the really good writers out there like GR's staff or Necromancer Games staff too.

 

[Cergorach]

Because EVE, for all its positive qualities, is really at the back of the pack of successful MMORPGs. Few companies are going to launch a new product and aim for "moderate success." The paradigm of kill stuff to gain kewl powers is the one that's had the most traction in the marketplace and I suspect the decision-makers will want that to be at least a significant component of how WODMMORPG works.

I don't think anyone expects World of Warcraft numbers (even Blizzard didn't), but shooting for something more successful than EVE is a must, if the game is going to be worth investing the capital. Even using existing components (although a lot of it is going to be inevitably built from scratch, so that CCP can build on what they've learned instead of having to live with things they'd rather have done differently), developing an MMORPG takes a lot of time and a lot of money.

<---- has actually worked at a company that's done just that

While a lot of the new MMORPGs are trying to win the lottery by being the next WoW, most have a short livespan eand then die. Take a look at www.mmogchart.com eve is one of the few that is rising instead of dropping in subscribers. Why does one need huge profits, those require huge investments, and if those investments fail, huge losses. Eve-Online started relatively small, but after three years is still around. Each time expanding little by little, now they have something in the 130k subscribers on the western server and another 170k (or so i am told) on the Chinese server. I don't think they are doing badly, hell according to the charts they are doing relatively well...

 

[Nightfall]

Which is probably why I keep hoping the team on NWN2 does something to make the multi-player online stuff more...inclusive.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

While a lot of the new MMORPGs are trying to win the lottery by being the next WoW, most have a short livespan eand then die. Take a look at www.mmogchart.com eve is one of the few that is rising instead of dropping in subscribers.

Um, I know. Having said that, the would-be WoW killers haven't come to market yet. The last major "threat" to WoW launched before it, and that was EQ2. We won't see anything really designed to take a bite out of the WoW market until 2007 when Vanguard and Pirates of the Caribbean Online hit.

Why does one need huge profits, those require huge investments, and if those investments fail, huge losses.

Well, the vast majority of MMORPGs that even register with audiences are distributed by companies that are publicly traded. Telling shareholders not to look for huge profits is a good way to find yourself looking for a new job.

Eve-Online started relatively small, but after three years is still around. Each time expanding little by little, now they have something in the 130k subscribers on the western server and another 170k (or so i am told) on the Chinese server. I don't think they are doing badly, hell according to the charts they are doing relatively well...

No, according to the charts, they're at the bottom range of what could be considered major players. That there are unprofitable MMORPGs below them that haven't had the lights turned off yet does not make them into a major success, nor does it make them a model that other companies will try to emulate.

This doesn't mean that EVE isn't a good game, that CCP isn't good people or that I don't wish the best on the players and developers. But having worked for a company that launched an MMORPG, I'm saying quite honestly that no one aims to be #6 or 7, not with someone else's money, and given the capital investment required to launch an MMORPG, it's always with someone else's money.

 

[Nightfall]

I still follow the idea that Steve Jobs is like everyone else. He wanted to reach the top but got beat there by someone else. Thus compromise came about and we now have the world of Bill Gates instead of Steve Jobs.

 

[Cergorach]

I'm not sure, but i think CCP is privately owned, so the actual owner(s) might not have the usual agenda...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm not sure, but i think CCP is privately owned, so the actual owner(s) might not have the usual agenda...

I'm pretty sure their agenda includes "pay the mortgage" and "feed the kids." Aiming low and missing has a lot worse consequences for failure than aiming for huge success and having to settle for a middling success.

Time will tell. I think it'd be great if the WODMMORPG does utilize non-traditional ways of advancement for the majority of a character's development, but I will be pleasantly surprised if that comes to pass.