White Wolf can take their Web Extras & Shove it!

[RedFox]

So aside from being a fan of one of their games and adding content to their site, what have *you* done to stop supporting White Wolf?

Not that it's pertinent, but I'm no longer an Exalted fan.

I don't support White Wolf by encouraging others to not buy their products and I likewise do not avail myself of their services any longer.

 

[ssampier]

I don't play any WW games. I don't have malice against them. Something like this would be better handled as an ad in the back of the book (More content! Online Only!).

Since their merger with Eve, are we going to see much RPG content from them anyway?

 

[Erik Mona]

Have you made your feelings know on the company's message boards? Complaining here will have no impact.

Calling out a company on the most popular independent RPG site on the Internet is likely to have more of an impact than you think. Even if the company in question completely ignores or isn't aware of the thread, lots of their customers surely are.

--Erik

 

[Imaro]

Personally I've never had any problems with White Wolf as a company. I buy their Exalted line as well as select nWoD books and just purchased BESM 3e. I'm not sure how I feel about this thread. Part of me remembers people on this forum, in a prior thread, claiming that once a company sold you a book, they had no responsibility to supply erratta, enhancements, an index etc. for free( I was of the opposite oppinion). They sold you a book and unless it was physically defective then the company held no obligation to supply you with anything else. Of course we were talking about WotC then. Now WW offers extra material for a book and charges for it and they're wrong. Seems like a double standard to me. Anyway to each his/her own just my .02

 

[Nellisir]

I've been doing this for the past 5 years or so. It's really convieniant not to have so many darn plastic bags around the house. I try to recyle when I can, but I'm not 100% all the time so using a canvas bag is the sure-fire way for me to reduce plastic consumption.

I've been doing this for...10 years? Since I met my wife. Her mother and aunt buy these canvas bags from Hannafords by the dozen, apparently. They've got at least 30 lying around the family homestead, plus we've got 20 or so here. Once you get used to remembering to bring them with you, they're pretty cool. They hold more, don't tear, and are just handy to have around.

We still get plastic bags on occasion; good to put old cat litter in.

Doesn't hurt that Hannafords gives -you- 5 cents for every bag you bring in.

 

[Sir Elton]

Personally I've never had any problems with White Wolf as a company. I buy their Exalted line as well as select nWoD books and just purchased BESM 3e. I'm not sure how I feel about this thread. Part of me remembers people on this forum, in a prior thread, claiming that once a company sold you a book, they had no responsibility to supply erratta, enhancements, an index etc. for free( I was of the opposite oppinion). They sold you a book and unless it was physically defective then the company held no obligation to supply you with anything else. Of course we were talking about WotC then. Now WW offers extra material for a book and charges for it and they're wrong. Seems like a double standard to me. Anyway to each his/her own just my .02

What had made it wrong was a misjudgement in advertising for one person. White Wolf doesn't have the obligation to provide web enhancements for free; however they bungled in an attempt to inform their customers of the fact that additional content costs a little more.

I learned that when I picked up my copy of Fire & Ice that there was a web enhancement, I had to pay to download it. I simply asked Tim Dugger (Rasyr) why, and he said it would be too expensive for ICE to provide it as a free web enhancement (too big to justify giving it away for free).

However, there was an advertisement in ICE's Fire and Ice for the missing content, and I'm patently waiting for the best time to download it (ICE accepts paypal, WHAHOOO!). What White Wolf did was advertise throughout the book on what was missing. What they needed to do is just mention it once.

Although, I don't think a White Wolf employee feel that he has to explain his actions on this board. Although they did make a faux pas with this result, and they may correct it in some manner.

 

[Imaro]

What had made it wrong was a misjudgement in advertising for one person. White Wolf doesn't have the obligation to provide web enhancements for free; however they bungled in an attempt to inform their customers of the fact that additional content costs a little more.

I learned that when I picked up my copy of Fire & Ice that there was a web enhancement, I had to pay to download it. I simply asked Tim Dugger (Rasyr) why, and he said it would be too expensive for ICE to provide it as a free web enhancement (too big to justify giving it away for free).

However, there was an advertisement in ICE's Fire and Ice for the missing content, and I'm patently waiting for the best time to download it (ICE accepts paypal, WHAHOOO!). What White Wolf did was advertise throughout the book on what was missing. What they needed to do is just mention it once.

Although, I don't think a White Wolf employee feel that he has to explain his actions on this board. Although they did make a faux pas with this result, and they may correct it in some manner.

So the problem is that instead of saying the extra content cost more or just leaving it out without mentioning it White Wolf stated there was extra content on the web for this book and was wrong for not explicitly stating it cost money to get?

I don't know, I kinda see this as an assuming issue, you assumed content(they never explicitly said was free) was free. The same way I assumed when purchasing my WotC books(since it was done for earlier books) that I would get errata. Seems like the same thing to me. I'm not saying either company is wrong or right, just stating how quick so many posters defended WotC having no obligation to put errata out even though earlier books being given this treatment led me to believe later books would get it as well.

 

[Banshee16]

Several pages in the book say "well, we ran out of space for this monster, but it's an extra online for you." One monster's description is pretty incomplete without said extra, as well.

This really feels like an miscommunication in-house to me.

It's entirely possible that that's what happened. I'm not making any excuses for them. It's just was curious about how one could say it's a trick when they were apparently quite open about requiring payment for these "extras".

But if you're cutting out information vital to an entry in the printed book, it's hard to excuse charging for that material. That's almost like charging for errata.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Literally. Did you hear the news recently on that grocery store chain that will soon be charging its customers 5 cents per plastic bag used to bag any groceries bought?

They also offer a 59 cent "deal" for a reusable bag that looks like a fancily folded blue tarp. :\

I am only glad that I do not have one of those stores near where I live, and I feel a bit of pity for those that do - and hope they have other grocery stores near by from which to buy their food.

That's a far different matter. That's simply for the benefit of the environment, since plastic bags have an effect on said environment. By applying a price to them, we establish a value, and it makes people think twice before getting them, when they just end up in landfill in the end, anyways.

We have it very easy in North America that way....getting charged for them just feels weird, because we're not used to it.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Here is why I'm annoyed:

Page 6: Web Extras. Basically half a column detailing what got cut & where to find it. Tey call it "Web Extras" Not Additonal on-line only product.

Page 16: Cloud Serpent Special type of "Wind Serpent (see web extras)"

I can stop there to make my point.

the say "(see web extras)" EVERY other place they mention an ADDITIONAL Product, it is in BOLD LETTERS (Player' Guide, Lands of Mystery, etc). Tey go to great trouble to let you whenever an additonal book is referenced. Yet, the Web Extras is just throrwn in, like "no big deal, just download & print".

It's very deceptive. & that's what I have a problem with. Not that they feel they want to charge for a web exclusive. That they couched it in terms that had become industry stnadard to indicate free. That they didn't even follow their own guidelines used throughout the book, detailing references to other books you were going to have to pay for.

Now that I've seen the details of the situation you encountered when purchasing the book, I can completely understand why you'd be upset.

Yes, I'd be upset if it had happened to me. Write them on it. They might not care, but you never know.

Banshee