Who are Howard and Leiber?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Side note about Rome and other ancient metropolises:

The tech level in those cities is often higher than the average modern person expects. Rome's aqueducts are lined with tubes of concrete. Weak batteries 1000's of years old have been found that were used to create thin layers of gold on certain objects (electroplating) and to aid in creating certain effects believed to be "magical."

Surprise your players- do a little research on ancient tech...

 

[wingsandsword]

Side note about Rome and other ancient metropolises:

The tech level in those cities is often higher than the average modern person expects. Rome's aqueducts are lined with tubes of concrete. Weak batteries 1000's of years old have been found that were used to create thin layers of gold on certain objects (electroplating) and to aid in creating certain effects believed to be "magical."

Oh, I certainly know that. One thing I find very amusing is, that the typical fantasy setting is very much locked into a medieval western europe model, ala LotR, King Arthur ect.

However, a Roman themed setting would in many ways accomodate the standard fantasy cliches and typical D&D play style much better:
Slaves & Gladiators.
Encountering strange beasts from far & wide, and quite possibly killing them.
World-Spanning Empires united by a single common language.
Polytheistic religion with at least some tolerance of foriegn faiths.
Mysterious cults that promise deep knowledge, and keep their beliefs secret from outsiders.
Characters of many different races/ethnicities meeting together in relative peace.
Huge cities where anything can happen.
Some "Modern" technology like indoor plumbing, and relatiely advanced medicine (some elements of Roman medicine we're just discovering were as good as things we have today, like their method of "stapling" wounds closed with silver wire promotes faster healing than conventional modern sutures).
Colorful characters (some Roman Emperors read like D&D NPC's in their biographies).
Huge standing armies with outposts around the known world.
Well mapped, maintained and guarded for PC's to travel far & wide.
Savage and menacing barbaric peoples on the fringes of society that threaten civlization itself.

A Roman themed setting really could be a way to get a semi-historically grounded setting with lots of room for gaming while not even being too implausible culturally or technologically.

Although this is getting a little far afield of the topic, maybe somebody should start a separate topic on the plausibility of setting demographics and technologies?

 

[The Shaman]

Well he casts 2 spells in the entire series - 1 spontaneous blast of magic when he was Mouse, and a failed attempt to read a scroll. Not exactly Merlin!

I was simply refuting the erroneous "always" in the preceding claim.

The fact that the Mouser is not a particularly effective wizard is immaterial.

The problem with the numbers you are using is they make absolutely no logical sense....Even using your own numbers, it simply doesn't work. Or rather, it ONLY works if you play in a very sparsely populated area...

You mean like Western Europe during the Dark Ages? A time when Roman towns disappeared by the dozens in the face of plague, barbarian invasions, and the collapse of civil and economic systems?

Now where have I seen that in a fantasy game...oh, that's right, it was my 3.0 D&D game-setting, where four kingdoms and a principality ruled an area roughly the size of New Mexico, pressed from the north by goblins, from the east by human barbarians, and by sea by two different groups of raiders.

"Logic" is highly subjective in discussing something like this, Hussar - my setting was perfectly logical given the starting assumptions of long periods of warfare in which humans and their allies were losing ground, where urban areas were infrequent and sparsely populated due to the bulk of the populace living in a druidical society that eschewed large conurbations.

 

[haakon1]

A Roman themed setting really could be a way to get a semi-historically grounded setting with lots of room for gaming while not even being too implausible culturally or technologically.

Agreed. So why is there no Roman-style setting?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There WAS a splatbook for Rome (and the Crusades, and Vikings, and...) in 2Ed- I imagine much of the info in them is still usable. Look for a green softcover book bound like "Complete Fighter" etc. in the bookstores or online.

 

[Turjan]

Agreed. So why is there no Roman-style setting?

Morningstar is very Roman-style. The main Empire of the Arcanis setting also reminds of Rome. For converting it a bit more to historical Rome, you might look at this here.

 

[Hussar]

From a historical perspective as well, I would point out that Angkor had a population of well over a million at around 1000 AD.

As far as the Grey Mouser goes, I haven't read the series, I admit, but, I was always under the impression that it was Fafrd (sp) and the Grey Mouser. Isn't he Fafrd's sidekick? I was unaware that he was the main protagonist of the stories. Again, I haven't read them, so, I could very well be wrong.

Shaman - fair enough. You have developed a solid reason why the structures I'm talking about don't exist in your world. However, not every setting includes the collapse of civilization. The fact that you have created a setting which is pretty far removed from "Tolkeinesque" in order to actually satisfy the assumptions of a Tolkenesque setting pretty much shows how bad those base assumptions are. For S'mon's idea of the powers that be to not have the power to control wizards would require every kingdom in the setting to not have the power. The second one kingdom had the power, it would have such a huge advantage over its neighbours, it would completely dominate. Much in the same way that higher technology societies in the real world frequently (not always) dominate their lower technology neighbours.

Really, that's the problem with using a "Tolkenesque" setting. If you change any of the assumptions, then the mechanics of the game throw everything out of whack. Give a king a bit more control over the population and he can start wizard colleges a la the Calastian Battle Mages of the Scarred Lands setting. Actually, at least early on, Calastia was based heavily on Rome. The Calastia setting book is a pretty decent stab at it anyway.

 

[Turjan]

From a historical perspective as well, I would point out that Angkor had a population of well over a million at around 1000 AD.

The economical and sociological implications of growing rice are, indeed, fascinating .

Much in the same way that higher technology societies in the real world frequently (not always) dominate their lower technology neighbours.

Just look at the impact of several great inventions of the Middle Ages on the shift of the European power center from the Mediterranean further North.

 

[Akrasia]

Agreed. So why is there no Roman-style setting?

See 'Thyatis' (part of the 'Known World'/Mystara) from The Dawn of the Emperors by Aaron Alston.

 

[francisca]

Agreed. So why is there no Roman-style setting?

Well, apart from Akrasia's suggestion, there was the Roman Historical Setting book for 2e. Should be plenty of fluff there. For the rules you might want to look at Stone to Steel by Monkey God for 3e stats on Roman armor/weapons, and a gladiator class. There is also SKRs new Argonauts, which is ancient greece, but could be "modernized" a bit w/out too much grief.

But, that will just get you the mediterranian portion of ancient rome. The empire was huge, and there are many cultures and myths to exploit for gaming purposes.