Who are Howard and Leiber?

[The Shaman]

As far as the Grey Mouser goes, I haven't read the series, I admit, but, I was always under the impression that it was Fafrd (sp) and the Grey Mouser. Isn't he Fafrd's sidekick? I was unaware that he was the main protagonist of the stories. Again, I haven't read them, so, I could very well be wrong.

Fafhrd and the Mouser are partners - neither is sidekick to the other.

The fact that you have created a setting which is pretty far removed from "Tolkeinesque" in order to actually satisfy the assumptions of a Tolkenesque setting pretty much shows how bad those base assumptions are.

Interestingly enough, I considered that to be my most "tolkienesque" homebrew world, without question - fractious kingdoms striving to unite against an ancient evil that threatened, both from within and without, to destroy them.

I'm really not at all clear on how you're using the term "tolkienesque" in this context.

 

[francisca]

Fafhrd and the Mouser are partners - neither is sidekick to the other.

There is even a hint that they are two sundered parts of some great, ancient hero.
Once in a while, each will follow the others fancy, shaking his head all the while, but there is no sidekick action going on, in any case.

 

[S'mon]

Interestingly enough, I considered that to be my most "tolkienesque" homebrew world, without question - fractious kingdoms striving to unite against an ancient evil that threatened, both from within and without, to destroy them.

I'm really not at all clear on how you're using the term "tolkienesque" in this context.

Yeah, it sounded very Tolkienesque to me.

 

[Hussar]

/editted to remove my own stupidity.

Not every campaign is based on Dark Ages Europe. That's always been my point. The existence of stable, predictable magic has massive impacts on a society. Handwaving them away by saying that, despite mechanics, only a tiny fraction of the population can cast spells and all kingdoms lack the internal control to take advantage of that is hardly logical.

Like I said, it only takes one. Why did Rome rise to power? Were they destined? Did they have some gift from the Great Juju? Were they smarter than everyone around them? No. They were more advanced technologically and took advantage of those advancements. A small edge led to a huge empire. Thus, there's no reason it wouldn't be the same in a fantasy setting with predictable magic. It's pretty much an inevitable outgrowth of having stable magic.

I've mentioned it a couple of times, but even something as simple as Continual Light/Continual Flame would have a massive impact on a society. A king would be stupid to not take advantage of this.

 

[S'mon]

Rome certainly didn't achieve greatness through being "more technologically advanced" - the Greek cities, notably Syracuse, were mostly considerably more advanced in military technology at the time of Rome's rise to greatness. It seems to have been discipline & bloody-mindedness that brought Rome victory in the face of many more technologically-advanced enemies.

My 'handwave', which for some reason you refuse to accept, is that magic per se is not as stable and predictable or as common as implied by the PHB, that PHB magic is only for PCs and a few exceptional NPCs. OTOH I agree with your view that stable powerful kingdoms will attempt to control and use this small number of magic-users.

 

[francisca]

My 'handwave', which for some reason you refuse to accept, is that magic per se is not as stable and predictable or as common as implied by the PHB, that PHB magic is only for PCs and a few exceptional NPCs. OTOH I agree with your view that stable powerful kingdoms will attempt to control and use this small number of magic-users.

That's the way I've always played it, no matter what edition. That's the way everyone else I've ever played with runs it.

 

[sword-dancer]

Quite right. That post was ridiculous, IMO. Leiber's women had spunk and character. They were nothing like, say, Howard's women. Not that some of them didn't have spunk too. I despise forced and unnatural political correctness for its own sake.

Look at Red Sonja or black agnes.

 

[sword-dancer]

I wonder, is it even possible for a fantasy writer to avoid being even slightly influenced by D&D these days?

As Urban Fantasy or Historic Fantasy like Lackey, Kaye or Martin proves.

 

[francisca]

Look at Red Sonja or black agnes.

Or Belit (sp?), the pirate queen.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Look at Red Sonja or black agnes.

I could be wrong, but was Red Sonja actually in any of Howard's Conan work or did she come latter in the 'shared' universe?