Who thinks ELH is a good thing for the wrong reason?

[Hakkenshi]

I think what's more to the point is that the abilities therein are pretty close to what those heroes of legend everyone's respectfully invoking could do.

I don't see what people were expecting. Cu Chulainn's strongest point was killing stuff really well with the gae bolga and Salmon Leaping and other such maneuvers that are very well covered in the book. Most Greek heroes would be in the same situation. And hey, if any hero of myth was ever defined by his items, it's Perseus.

If anything, the weak point of the ELH is the Epic Prestige Classes (why bother? They suck.), and maybe the Spell Seeds (but more in a "great idea but not fleshed out well enough to cover everything" way).

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I see the ELH as sort of a pressure release valve. A lot of games have power creep. A newly created character one year can be a lot less powerful than another one created a year later as new power/features/skills are added.

The ELH says, "hey you want power? Don't do it down there at 1st level, do it at 21st!" I mean, if power creep happens at level 30 will anyone even notice?

 

[kenjib]

I'll second that. It would be very intresting to see a "module" for 40th level PCs. A killer one at that

EDIT: Name suggestion: Balls of Nightfang Spire

How about "Return to the Throne of Bloodstone?"

 

[EOL]

For those with complaints about the ELH I would think that having it added to the SRD would be good news. Now we get to see if the D20 publishers can do it better. I think some people would opine that they did the splat books better, why not the ELH?

 

[Crothian]

How about "Return to the Throne of Bloodstone?"

Or even Tomb of Horrors, the lost levels.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

The only reason I bought ELH was because it was on sale at buy.com for less than $14. I doubt I'll ever use it, although some parts (particularly the monster section) was pretty neat.

I am in the same boat.

It makes a good flat writing surface and paper weight, though.

FD

 

[barsoomcore]

Tomb of REAL Horrors: Behind The "Fake Wimpy Just-For-Tourists Tomb" At Last!

I found the ELH useful -- My campaign is full of epic NPCs who push the players around a lot so it's useful to have new spurs (ow) to my imagination for their abilities. Spell Seeds are cool but could have been a book (not to mention a magic system) all their own. The monsters are great, though. I love the epic-level monsters.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Well, I just hope that among those people "falling over each other" to put out "epic crap", someone brings more imagination to the table than the ELH does.

Suddenly what had been bothering me about the ELH was crystallized when I read this post. I've said elsewhere that I feel it was perhaps too conservative. Now I see that the problem is that it isn't too conservative power-wise, but imagination-wise.

What I mean is, a lot of the material in it seems kind of blah. Sure, there are some spectacular elements - some of the epic spells, skill DCs for standing on clouds, a lot of the monsters - but there are few attempts to evoke a sense of wonder, to show that epic level play can emulate the deeds of heroes from myth and legend.

As an example of what I'm getting at, it would have been great if they had included a section on epic deeds from real-world myth and legend, and how these are illustrated using the ELH rules. That would have given a good benchmark, much as I feel that Deities & Demigods helped give some idea (though not enough of an idea, but that's another thread) of what any given campaign world's pantheon could be like, using real-world pantheons as examples. If anyone remembers the 2e Historical Reference book for the Celts, you'll remember there were heroic feats (sort of the precursor to 3e feats) in that book - Salmon Leap is one that leaps to mind. Stuff like this would have been much better, in my opinion, thn the material on the "epic city," which I doubt I'll ever have much use for.

But, that's just my opinion. Maybe others will find a use for the material I don't find very engaging.

 

[TSL]

My problem is not with the mathematical progression that the ELH embraces, it is with the whole concept that 'high level equals epic'.

Epic is a state of mind.

The toadying hobgoblin whose Evil Overlord's favorite hound has just been kidnapped by a group of rogue druids, the founders of the Freedom for Familiars! movement, and his request to recover said mutt could be epic.

Epic is a sweeping story.

As for me, I doubt I'd ever run a campaign above 20th level, but there are a number of creatures in the ELH that would be fun to sic on a high level party. A gloom assassin coming after a beloved NPC was the first thing that came to mind as I glanced through it.

TS
Voodoo Guru
Adamant

 

[Crothian]

But, that's just my opinion. Maybe others will find a use for the material I don't find very engaging.

It's about as good a read as the PHB is. Personally, it's pretty much what I wanted. It gave high level options and showed us how to create more. The monster section is the bestsection, and I really do hope someone will create some epic magical weapons that aren't as bland as dry wheat toast. But overall I like the book. I'd love to use it. My current group doesn't have any use for it becasue level 6 is as far as they've gotten in any d20 game. I'm hoping to help them get past that as both games with that group are level 6 right now.