Who was right

[Moff_Tarkin]

Being a Paladin makes this so hard. If I was a chaotic neutral rouge I would just take what I was owed.

The pack mule analogy doest hold. That would be no ones fault. In the sundering of my sheild someone was at fault.

So bassically most people agree that he would have owed me for sundering my sheild. But when we kill him all debts are paid and his stuff is party treasure.

You do realize that encourages me to keep such people alive, even if it means protecting him from the party and healing him in battle. Why would I let him die when it would mean the loss of so much. Next time this happens I will make sure the bad guy does not die, and if he does I will personly get him ressurected out of my own pocket before the looking can begin.

 

[Masquerade]

I agree with your argument, not necessarily with the logic.

This would vary between groups of PCs, but, if they're at all organized, it makes sense to only split the profit evenly. Expended resources should be covered first. Does the group make healers pay for their wands of CLW out of their own pockets?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I would not owe the bad guy anything for sundering his sheild.

From the perspective of this being put to a court, which is a bit off since, as mentioned by others, you willingly entered combat and those laws just don't apply, this doesn't hold up.

If sundering a shield means the loss has to be paid by the one who sunders it, then that applies to everyone. Law has nothing to do with Good and Evil in D&D, especially with alignments, and thus you can't just say "Well he doesn't get the same rules as I do because he's Evil." That would be the antithesis of Lawful, in my opinion.

It either applies to everyone or no one.

Either way, I have to agree with the fact that combat is a considerable risk. From the perspective of the characters, losing a shield shouldn't matter when it could have been one's life.

 

[Eosin the Red]

I'd still pay good money, GOOD MONEY, to see this on Court TV.

It is funny as all get out watching it here.

I agree with Umbran (maybe that should become a motto?)

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

Actually, saying I would owe him for sundering his shield is not unlawful.

When cops arrest a drug dealer and seize his mony, they do not owe him that money back. He is a criminal who probaly obtained most if not all that mony buy unlawful means, he is not entitled to have it back. This guy was part of a demon summoning, undead raising group of bad guys. All he has gained in life probally came from killing and taking from good people. He diserves nothing but the executioners ax.

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

You know Eosin. I have a better motto that will come out of this tread.

"Cost of doing business"

Character dies and wants the party to pull gold to resurrect him. Sorry, cost of doing business.

Character looses and arm and wants donation to get a regeneration spell cast. Sorry, cost of doing business.

Character doesn’t have enough money for horse, food, room, etc. and needs the party to help out. Sorry, cost of doing business.

I can see my group and me using the quote in many games to come.

Actually, I want to get into insurance and use that quote on anyone who makes a claim.

 

[Umbran]

The logic of the party is clouded by greed. No one is going to side with me when siding with me means less money in their pocket.

Two things: First, siding with you or against you doesn't put money (real or game) into our pockets. We are not biased by that. Second, you are applying a rationale in an attempt to line your own character's pockets, too. If you were making this argument for someone else's character who lost a major item, you might have a moral high ground, but as it is a question of benefit to you, directly, there doesn't seem to be much difference from where I sit.

I can list a few examples of games where this very group got screwed over, and even lost party members, because they let greed guide their judgments.

Yes. And I have seen parties get toasted because they kept feeding money to support characters who made bad choices, so that they didn't have resources when they really needed them. There is no single strategy of resource management that will work perfectly for all cases.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

So basically most people agree that he would have owed me for sundering my sheild. But when we kill him all debts are paid and his stuff is party treasure.

Huh? Are we reading the same thread?

Most of the posters upthread have basically said that you put the shield at risk by entering combat and loss/damage of equipment is just a fact of life. They guy you were trying to kill or your allies are not financially responsible for your loss.

...Do you also charge for having to maintain your sword and armor, repairing the minor dents and scratched.. does the Archer charge for each arrow? Does the mage charge to replace that weird component?

Do real world people get repaid by the drunk that totals thier car? Nope..thats what insurance companies are for. Maybe you should go buy some Shield Insurance. I am sure the law offices of Dewey, Stickem, and Howe would be glad to help with that!

I think you would be better to look at the events in combat as being an exception to the concepts of moderm legalism.


IMHO, being a Palidin makes it simple. Nice and black and white. The victims of the bad guys should be taken care of first...if possible, followed by ensuring your church has its tithe, followed by accepting the groups decision on the split of any profits. In the case of the party not wanting to support your tithe, it comes out of your share.

Of course, being a CN Thief makes it pretty simple too. You get a fair split of any loot the party knows about...and keep the rest

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

But Umbran, I did defend the monk who lost his 10,000 gp enchantment. I have in the past been part of pulling party money for resurection, regenerations, paying back the wizard for compents for party spells like identify.

Resurection is somthing this party would pay for a lot more if were not for my now sundered sheild taking the brunt of enemy attacks. I guess I'll just retire this character ant watch the party be overwhelmed without there wall to hold back the tide.

 

[RangerWickett]

In one campaign I played in, the biggest bad-asses in the world were insurance agents for adventurers. You pay the agency a few thousand gold pieces a month/week/day depending on what sort of quest you're undertaking, and if your demise is reported (using the proper form, of course), the agents go out and recover your body for resurrection.

We never got into magic item insurance, but that sounds lucrative too.