Who was right

[Will]

Sure, Switchblade, but historically magic shields, particularly those of elven make, were often...

DUDE. Seriously.

 

[Chimera]

First of all, did you even read the moderator's post that talking about table-level issues is one of the main purposes of this site? This forum must seem VERY strange if you don't get that.

Been on this board a very long time and I understand it very well.

There is a difference between discussion of table issues, and argumentative never ending discussion because you HAVE to be right and you want to prove it to your group.

I've already been through this with someone from a past game. Every single person at the table felt one way, that he was in the wrong. And yet he chose to take it to the boards, to misrepresent the situation and plead for support. When the overwhelming majority of people backed the rest of the group, he refused to accept it, saying that "Well some people supported me, so I don't think I'm wrong". In the end, we kicked him out. Only AFTER we gave him the boot did he decide to see the error of his (angry, rude and disrespectful) ways and seek amends, but it was too late.

Now this isn't the same situation or the same person; the one in my experience was much worse and much more clearly wrong.

But that being said, if everyone in your group says X, where X = Decision about how a situation should be handled; then you're not only not going to win the argument by bringing it to a message board, you're going to injure your relationships with the other players. And if it came to The Neverending Whine about how you lost your shield and want everyone else to pay for it (disclaimer: I'm not accusing the OP of doing this to his group, just saying...), then there comes a point where I'd happily say "I don't want to hear it anymore, go play with someone else".

Put it this way: You're playing a game, any game, in a game store. A situation goes against you and you argue it with the other players at the table. You lose, and everyone else decides you're wrong. Not on a Rules ruling, but on a Group Decision basis, like this situation, which is really about recompense. How does it help you to run around the game store, complaining and seeking the support of random patrons? Are you expecting your group to change their minds because Billy-Bob Randomguy wanders over and says a few words?

 

[Chimera]

Not sure about SCA in the US but I've never heard of that happening in LRP in the UK, weapon/shield breakages happen and people except that. If you are going to swing things at people you have to expect them to break/airblade sometime (the sword, not the person) Fortunately rarely unless you are an archer (arrows don't last long apparently)

Thank you. That was pretty much my point. Weapons and armor break, expect it.

Now it's not exactly historical, but can you imagine in A Knight's Tale if Heath Ledger's character had gone after the other knight when his armor cracked, or his helmet got battered? He'd be laughed off the field.

Likewise, in older rules that had critical miss/weapons break rules. Did ANYONE who ever lost a weapon ANYWHERE ever whine to their group "my sword broke, you all owe me for it"? Because I don't care if it was a +5 Holy Vorpal Irreplaceable Weapon of God, my default answer is "There's one of the mook's swords, use that one until we find a better one (which is coming out of your share of the treasure), or you can afford to buy yourself a better one".

 

[Oryan77]

You started a thread asking for advice, and you didn't bother to read the responses?

That's damn funny

I bet if everyone agreed with him he would have read each post!

6+ pages worth of gamers posting is a lot of reading though....we can be pretty long-winded.

I assume he never read my post either, but who cares; I'll post again

I'd probably be careful pushing this issue down the players throats....especially the DM. I know it seems unfair for a DM to cheat and do something like sunder an item without doing it by the rules. But consider this; you admitted to being a one trick pony. I assume you also didn't find that shield as loot and either chose it as starting equipment during character creation or you bought it in a magic shop (which is a reason I think magic shops are lame). I know from experience that as a DM, one trick ponies that barely ever feel endangered during encounters can be annoying and boring for a DM to deal with. I think of PCs like that to be about as frustrating to deal with as powergamed PCs.

I don't blame the DM for wanting to get rid of that shield if it meant that he has trouble challenging your PC as much as he challenges the other PCs. He should have done it more creatively though. Apparently you were already a nuisance to him, and arguing this odd "payback" scenario with the group makes you more of a problem player. In a bad way, the DM sundering it is his way of saying, "Please tone down your AC so I don't have to jump through hoops to make a fully balanced encounter to challenge "the party" and not just you."

Just be cool & be an easy going player and roll with it. Get a new less powerful shield and just play a cool paladin. It would even be worth asking the DM, "Hey man, I assume you sundered the shield cause my AC was so high. I'll keep it toned down but can you maybe reward me with treasure down the road that will help make my PC more well-rounded in other areas so he's not underpowered?" Don't be annoying to your group. You only ruin the fun of the game by being annoying.

 

[phindar]

Although I suppose the target could sunder several times, battering down the shield. But see point about 'don't you want to be killing your target??'

All I know is if I had a +5 Shield and someone made a Sunder attempt against it, I'd most likely throw it as far as I could behind me and then dive tackle them. (Sunder in a grapple, chiba!) It's D&D, and killing people is expected, but Sunder is just mean.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

All I know is if I had a +5 Shield and someone made a Sunder attempt against it, I'd most likely throw it as far as I could behind me and then dive tackle them. (Sunder in a grapple, chiba!) It's D&D, and killing people is expected, but Sunder is just mean.

The last thing I want in my games if for any of the bad guys to be mean.

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

I have actually won my argument… in a way.

This discussion has led me to find how tough my shield really is and that it was therefore not sundered. So my action (arguing about the shield) led to the intended result (me getting my shield back). Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

 

[Maggan]

Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

Maybe now you see that if you had opened the discussion explaining what you were after, instead of trying to conceal it in some convoluted appeal to logic, you would have achieved your true goal without having to wade through a discussion that was irrelevant to you?

/M

 

[billd91]

Now do you see why you should argue anything, even a lost cause, to the bitter end?

No.

There's a value in thinking about something, questioning things, and asking for advice. Arguing lost causes to the bitter end is generally a bad idea, born of obstinance, that only produces results by pure luck rather than intent.

 

[Janx]

Maybe your sense of entitlement towards a new shield (which I disagree with), is actually displaced frustration because of how capriciously your shield was destroyed. that's something I can get behind.

It's possible the shield was targeted by the DM because of the OP's sense of entitlement...

Insisting that you get your stuff replaced before the party gets paid is a greedy act.

PC equipment IS an expendable resource (even it is a permanent item). If most parties just split the gold, and most parties expect members to maintain their own gear, than you are owed nothing.

In a mercenary unit where the soldiers own their gear, the share of spoils IS payment for upkeep, replacement and expense. A smart soldier knows to make more per encounter such that he isn't loosing money when gear breaks. The standard D&D party fits this model.

Just because somebody paid for 2 PCs replacement gear, doesn't mean he agrees with you. He may just be trying to stop the whining.

Furthermore, if the friend has enough GP to do so, why doesn't the OP? Or is it that the OP put all his eggs in one basket, and is now paying the price?

also bear in mind, the OP is going to side with getting 25,000GP for his lost gear. He is biased. He also did not indicate how much money the mission gave out.

I smell a lot of whining about what the GM did. That's going to cause friction with the players, when the problem is really with the GM and OP. Furthermore, GM's tend to hate whining about their decisions, so that is going to further antogonize the GM. It's a GM's market. Don't tick him off, or you'll be needing to find a new table.