Whoops- WotC does it again

[The Little Raven]

Instead of following the lead of almost all of the other dice manufacturers and delivering their product in a nice, compact, translucent and reusable container, they give us a bunch of cardboard and plastic around air.

White Wolf has been releasing dice packaged like this for about 10 years now, and they've been targeted at both the book trade and game stores, as I've seen their Vampire dice at both.

There are far worse things than WotC's packaging using a little too much cardboard (which is much more environmentally friendly than the plastic tubes other manufacturers use).

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

If there is any serious criticism of the "Premium Dice", it is that the dice are ugly and the bag is too small to hold a writing instrument without the end sticking out.

It is a little dumb that the dice come in a small, sealed, plastic bag instead of just arriving loose in the dice bag.

The dice bag is very nice, similar to the 3.x "Premium Dice". It is a heavy fabric that feels vaguely leatherish. The D&D logo looks very nice in red on black.

The 3.x "Premium Dice" were a nice gold on green. A little low contrast and so difficult to read in bad light, but very good looking.

The new dice are white on blue. The blue has an ugly marbling. The white letters are in a hideous font. Overall they look very cheap.

My favorite dice are still my old school set from Waldenbooks (with TSR/Waldenbooks logo dice bag!) with each size a different color. I am anxiously awaiting my Cthulhu dice and bag by Q Workshop from Paizo.

 

[Scribble]

Again, no, no NO.

I said its an issue of wasteful overpackaging, not deception. It seems like an awful lot of box for so little.

Yes, but I was responding to your comment that people can't see the dice they're buying inside, and this being a bad thing.

The Character folder was both overpackaged and misleadingly labeled.

Was the folder mislabled or the website? I was under the impression just the WoTC website was mislabled? (Which I never saw, only that guys claim that it was.)

The 4Ed Core 3, if you pre-ordered them at least, came in a cardboard mini-binder, as did the 3.XEd ones- again, pretty much unnecessary.

The gift set was packaged in a box. This is very common when the item is part of a set. Like if you buy all of the Harry Potter books you can get them in a collectors box. Or if you buy a DVD season, you get them all in a box.

It's not that uncommon for something of the type.

Yes, you can argue that it's wastefull packaging, but WoTC is far from doing soemthign outside of the industry norms. So if you want to be upset about it, why not include everyone?

Otherwise it seems like you're just trying to demonize WoTC...

 

[Fifth Element]

Again, no, no NO.

I said its an issue of wasteful overpackaging, not deception. It seems like an awful lot of box for so little.

You also said this:

I mean, its not like these things are "collectibles" in the sense of M:tG cards or DDM or WizKids minis. Given the competition's packaging- blister packs, reusable plastic boxes, you ought to be able to examine your purchase.

Instead, there isn't even a window or mini-blister with one of the die in it. You're buying sight-unseen.

Don't harangue someone for responding to something you said. It's bad form.

Edit: Ninja'd by the responder. And by ENWorld's oft-slow loading.

 

[Mercule]

It is dice and a bag.

I don't see anything wrong with the packaging. Cardboard can be recycled, and I'm much, much more worried about excess use of plastic.

Cheers!

Indeed. I thought environmentally friendly artists were packaging their CDs in cardboard sleeves, rather than jewel cases because plastic cases are bad.

 

[CharlesRyan]

Anyway, lets look at the context. [. . .]

The Character folder was both overpackaged [. . .]

The 4Ed Core 3, if you pre-ordered them at least, came in a cardboard mini-binder. . .

The Character Sheets packaging consisted of a single sheet of paper and some shrink-wrap; the core rulebook set just shrinkwrap. If you're counting the folder and the slipcover as "packaging," you're on the wrong rant--those are part of the product, not the packaging. (If you want to argue that D&D products aren't environmentally friendly, that's a separate issue.)

For a household of 4 w/2 Border Collies, we toss about 2-3 bags of garbage a week, on average.

So in the eight weeks since the launch of 4E, you've throws away around 20 garbage bags full of rubbish, and you're coming down on WotC for contributing a few grams to that total? Given the inflammatory subject line of this thread, I think you're stretching just a little too far for an anti-WotC rant!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He could mean that there is no way of verifying that the dice you buy are in mint condition or something.

There are all kinds of considerations that go into buying something that visual inspection could help with- shortchanging due to packaging error or damage to product (both problems I've encountered with CCGs and CMGs), even whether what is inside is to your aesthetic tastes. This is something that some kind of translucency would alleviate. Even keeping the cardboard packaging, a window with the die lined up (much like certain limited CMG releases have had) would have let you evaluate the product.

What else besides those have people been complaining about? I've got all the 4e things and I'm happy with everything else.

Not just 4Ed, but recent releases in general. There have been some complaints about inks that smear or books that fall apart- not unlike when 2Ed was having its problems with its brown splatbooks.

Yes, you can argue that it's wastefull packaging, but WoTC is far from doing soemthign outside of the industry norms. So if you want to be upset about it, why not include everyone?

I don't buy DVD gift sets, so that's a new one on me. I'm willing to lump those producers into the criticism about their packaging habits.

Was the folder mislabled or the website? I was under the impression just the WoTC website was mislabled? (Which I never saw, only that guys claim that it was.)

Its not only the lingo on Amazon and other sites.

From what those who have bought it have said, the packaging itself as seen in a store while browsing makes claims which it only reaches when you actually include the discardables.

There is a thread on it somewhere else on this site- I'd have put this thread in as a side-comment in it if I'd been able to find it again.

Indeed. I thought environmentally friendly artists were packaging their CDs in cardboard sleeves, rather than jewel cases because plastic cases are bad.

As pointed out above, the EPA itself said the petrochemical and paper industries are running neck and neck as polluters in the gulf states...and we are where most of the nations' refineries are located. If you don't have refineries in your state, paper mills are quite possibly your #1 polluters.

Jewelboxes and ecopacks/digipacks are about what & what, in terms of ecological impact.

If I buy a CD in a jewelbox, and the box is damaged, I can replace that box cheaply and easily, and all I need to replace is the box.

OTOH, if the ecopack/digipack cardboard sleeve tears (usually along a fold, for something you really enjoy and listen to a lot) or is otherwise damaged typically by abrasion or moisture- spilled drinks and whatnot- there's no way to replace it with all of its art and info intact without buying the entire thing anew. That's not just the packaging, but also the CD itself.

It may seem like a corner case, but I'm a music junkie with a collection approaching 5K CDs- I've had to replace many cardboard packaged CDs. For those in jewelboxes, I can buy a box of 10 jewelboxes for the price of one cardboard replacement, keeping my liner notes, art, and whatever else came with the CD.

So far (purely anecdotally), I've only had to buy about 20 replacement jewelboxes (2 packages)...I've repurchased about 15 digipacked CDs.

And I'm careful with mine...

The Character Sheets packaging consisted of a single sheet of paper and some shrink-wrap;

You don't think that a single sheet of paper wrapped in plastic, etc. isn't a bit overpackaged? A lot of people who've bought the product would seem to disagree.

the core rulebook set just shrinkwrap. If you're counting the folder and the slipcover as "packaging," you're on the wrong rant--those are part of the product, not the packaging. (If you want to argue that D&D products aren't environmentally friendly, that's a separate issue.)

Do books really need shrinkwrap? Does that cardboard slipcover perform any real function?

If you use it on your bookshelf, it simply takes up space- not much, but enough for a couple of modules.

Off the bookshelf, what does it add? It tells you that it contains a D&D product...but the products themselves tell you that.

Essentially, its pretty trash.

 

[Scribble]

There are all kinds of considerations that go into buying something that visual inspection could help with- shortchanging due to packaging error or damage to product (both problems I've encountered with CCGs and CMGs), even whether what is inside is to your aesthetic tastes. This is something that some kind of translucency would alleviate. Even keeping the cardboard packaging, a window with the die lined up (much like certain limited CMG releases have had) would have let you evaluate the product.

But there are tons of products I buy that don't let you see inside before you buy. Putting a window in the box seems counter-intuitive to your argument... As now it would be using paper AND plastic...

Not just 4Ed, but recent releases in general. There have been some complaints about inks that smear or books that fall apart- not unlike when 2Ed was having its problems with its brown splatbooks.

I know GURPS 4e had a bunch of issues too.

I don't buy DVD gift sets, so that's a new one on me. I'm willing to lump those producers into the criticism about their packaging habits.

If you want... It's not really a "packaging" thing though. people like the boxes. It ties a collection together. If you don't agree, that's just personal taste.

Do books really need shrinkwrap?

Don't know. Maybe it helps prevent damage in transit?

Does that cardboard slipcover perform any real function?

If you use it on your bookshelf, it simply takes up space- not much, but enough for a couple of modules.

Off the bookshelf, what does it add? It tells you that it contains a D&D product...but the products themselves tell you that.

Essentially, its pretty trash.

In your opinion. I really like the box. It holds my books together, and helps keep them in nice condition, and yes, it's pretty. But again that's a personal prefference thing. You can buy them without the box.

Again, I can understand if you were making a call to all game companies to be more eco-friendly, but you're not. You're specifically calling out WoTC when they're not really doing anything out of the norm.

It gives the impression that you're just trying to bad mouth WoTC, and using the eco-frienly argument as a convenient way to do so.

If that's not what you're doing, and honestly DO want to see game companies be more eco friendly, then perhaps a title like- WoTC please be more eco-friendly... Or suggestions for game companies to be more eco-friendly would have better served the thread? (Followed by an outline of how the game companies could do so?)

 

[Krensky]

You don't think that a single sheet of paper wrapped in plastic, etc. isn't a bit overpackaged? A lot of people who've bought the product would seem to disagree.

Do I think a folder of papers sold with a piece of paper to keep the UPC and blurb and such off the folder and then shrink wrapped is over packaging? No. It's pretty damn close to the minimum amount of packaging possible for the item. They could loose the paper, but that would reduce the value (such as it is) of the item since the folder would be covered in titles and ISBNs and UPCcodes and blurb text instead of being, you know, a folder. I haven't seen a single complaint that the character sheets are over packaged, just that they are poor value for the money.

Do books really need shrinkwrap? Does that cardboard slipcover perform any real function?

If you use it on your bookshelf, it simply takes up space- not much, but enough for a couple of modules.

Off the bookshelf, what does it add? It tells you that it contains a D&D product...but the products themselves tell you that.

Essentially, its pretty trash.

The books aren't shrinkwrapped, the slip cased set is. The set needs shrinkwrap to keep the books with the case. The slipcase does preform a function. The same function they preform for every book, CD, DVD, LP, or boked set of the above that has them. Protection and collectable value. The primary point of a slip cover on a book is to protect the edges of the text block, reduce abrasion on the edge of the covers, and hold the book closed to help reduce the long term effects of humidity by both helping keep it away from the text block and limiting the swelling. Considering some of the production quality issues with the core books, even considering that they're mass market cardboard articles and not real hardbacks, anything to reduce the swelling and rippling of the pages is for the good. Also, since it's a set, the box keeps them together, the same way a box does in a boxed set of DVDs, CDs, LPs, or whatever does.

 

[Halivar]

Well, considering that, most of the time, the boxes o' WotC dice just sit on the shelves at Borders, I can't gripe too much.

The minimal dice-related environmental footprint is Chessex's pound o' dice + a Crown Royal bag. And since I have a fresh new bag, I think it's time for some fresh new dice, too (maybe luckier ones, this time).