Who's at fault?

[Numion]

You misread me... I was saying that the initial situation -- that of a scene in which one or more characters are put into the spotlight, and one or more other characters are relagated to the sidelines -- is unavoidable. Everytime you run into a locked chest it happens on a very small scale... Everyone else sits aside and waits while rogue, searches, disables, opens lock and then appraises.

In small enough increments it doesn't matter. Like you probably don't consider yourself missing parts of a movie because you have to blink every now and then.

 

[fusangite]

You know, speaking as a player, I usually have better things to do in the evening than sit around doing nothing for three hours straight. What's in it for me, as a player, to even bother showing up if I'm not going to get to do anything that session?

I'll tell you what's in it for me when I stay at a session after my character dies:

1. Social Companionship: I game with friends. I like visiting them every week; we have plenty of side conversations and digressions in our games because this is social time for us to hang out while doing an enjoyable shared activity.

2. Following the Storyline: Usually a good game is driven by a strong narrative that is enjoyable in its own right, all the more so because my character has contributed to chain of events leading to the current situation. Often there is information about the world or larger plot that you can learn when your character is doing nothing.

3. Watching Good Players Play: The people I game with are good at playing D&D; that means they come up with witty, entertaining things for their characters to say. The figure out what is going on and make plans. They fight strategically and dramatically. I like watching the game being player well, even if I'm just a spectator.

4. Taking Turns: Player on-screen time balances out in the end; if I tolerate some subset of the party taking centre stage for one episode, there is a greater chance that if I need or want to do this in a future episode, my fellow players will be accommodating.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

After skimming all this, I feel the thread started off on the wrong foot...

Nobody is 'at fault'. Its a game. Sometimes the game focuses on one character or set of characters to the exclusion of another. If the DM plans it this way, its bad for the DM. If the game runs this way due to in character choices.. thats what this game is about, right?

Now, could the player with the palidon done something other then stew over being left out? Yup. Could the DM offered that player a minor NPC to oppose the rest of the party with, splitting the load of the DM and keeping everyone involved? Sure.

Live and learn.

Caveat, this is coming from a player whose WEG Star Wars character spent 60 to 70% of game session time off-screen doing supporting role stuff, and I ended up spending the time either reading comic books or helping dig up obscure rule references... or even helping out at one of the other game tables in the FLGS we played at. Could I have gotten annoyed that my character was rarely in the spotlight in a game with 8 to 13 players? sure.. but it wouldn't have helped
{besides, it was fun to get to play the cavalry when I returned from whatever mission I was on with just the right item for the current crisis...DM starting getting annoyed at that habit }

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The group as a whole failed.

I blame everyone. Rogue player. Paladin player. DM. Wizard player.

If I wanted to play a game of deep strategy I would not play D&D. If I wanted to get into deep RPing I would not play D&D.

I play D&D to get a bit of both pleasures with my friends. Leaving one of my friends completely out of the fun for more than 30-40 minutes is failing to be a good player of the game in my book.

All should be shamed. Especially in such a small group. Jeez.

 

[The Red Priest]

The DM is solely at fault if there's a game session where a player shows up to play only to discover he's Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer. Shame on the DM. I'd demand an apology and a promise it would never happen again, or I'd quit the game. Bad, DM. Bad.

EDIT. On second thought. A portion of the guilt lies with the party as well. With 3 characters only, having a paladin and thief in the same party is a poor mix. Shows a lack of player skillz. Choosing characters should be part of the mark of good players.

Still. As DM, I would at least approach the player w/the paladin to coax him back into it. I get the feeling the DM had nothing but the thief's scenario prepared to go.

Final analysis. DM 70% at fault, playerS 30%.

 

[The Red Priest]

Now, could the player with the palidon done something other then stew over being left out? Yup. Could the DM offered that player a minor NPC to oppose the rest of the party with, splitting the load of the DM and keeping everyone involved? Sure.

Or, how about if the Paladin decided to go off on his own little quest and monopolize the DM's time?

Play an NPC while the other members of the party gain XP and treasure? That's hardly fair.

 

[KenM]

if i was the DM I would have had the pally 'discover" the secret passage while walking in the city.

 

[Gold Roger]

Thanks for your replies folks,
In the end the campaign was scrapped and the group re-rolled characters. Everyone agreed (after a few nights of cooling off) that it was indeed the group's fault as a whole for 1st not creating a group that is a team and 2nd for not finding a way to correct the situation once it started. As Buzz said, even the wizard could have done something.
Everyone decided that this was an "off day" for all and decided to move on.
Everyone is still friends to this day 15 years later.

That's great. And it's really great because other groups made simmilar experiences and shared them over the internet. When I started DMing and have never played before, that was a great recource for me, allowing me to not have this and various other gaming problems.

Rock on.

 

[Hussar]

I'll tell you what's in it for me when I stay at a session after my character dies:

1. Social Companionship: I game with friends. I like visiting them every week; we have plenty of side conversations and digressions in our games because this is social time for us to hang out while doing an enjoyable shared activity.

2. Following the Storyline: Usually a good game is driven by a strong narrative that is enjoyable in its own right, all the more so because my character has contributed to chain of events leading to the current situation. Often there is information about the world or larger plot that you can learn when your character is doing nothing.

3. Watching Good Players Play: The people I game with are good at playing D&D; that means they come up with witty, entertaining things for their characters to say. The figure out what is going on and make plans. They fight strategically and dramatically. I like watching the game being player well, even if I'm just a spectator.

4. Taking Turns: Player on-screen time balances out in the end; if I tolerate some subset of the party taking centre stage for one episode, there is a greater chance that if I need or want to do this in a future episode, my fellow players will be accommodating.

QFT

There's nothing wrong with the player taking over some NPC's. It's one session. It's not like it's going to make or break the player's xp. As far as the DM being able to give equal time to the paladin, well, it could quite well be the DM has nothing prepped for the Paladin player and isn't all that good at winging it. It could also be that the DM wants to get through this bit so they can get back together again. Dragging it out over two or three sessions so the Paladin can get equal air time is perhaps not a great idea either.

Is it the DM's fault if a PC get's killed and you can't parachute a new PC in right away? The player needs time to create a new character after all. Or, it may be completely unrealistic to air drop a new PC into the middle of the adventure.

Did it suck to be the Paly's player that night? Yup. Is this going to happen every night? I hope not. Sometimes you get to be the hero and sometime's you're off somewhere in the background while someone else gets the stage. Suck it up and move on.

 

[FireLance]

In one campaign I'm playing in, the DM has taken steps to ensure this problem does not happen. I'm playing a knight/paladin, but the DM enjoys running the occasional scenario in which stealth, deception or sneakiness is required.

To get around the potential problem of my character being unwilling to participate in such games, he asked me to create a secondary beguiler character who would level at the same time as the primary character, and would go with the party on such missions instead of the knight.

In this way, the DM gets to run the scenarios he wants, the rest of the party doesn't feel held back, and I get to play.