D&D 4E Who's still playing 4E

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I ran a 4e session yesterday for the first time in six weeks due to summer scheduling problems. We had a "new" player (new to the group). He had previous run 5e, but was happy with 4e. Since he's also a DM, we might rotate with a 5e game run by him. (My group usually runs two or three games in rotation.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I totally agree with everything you said here. 5e was a letdown, but strangely 13th Age was the bigger letdown. I guess the way it was talked about I got some idea in my head that it was gonna be to 4e what Pathfinder is to 3.x, But hell 13th Age looks closer to Pathfinder than it does to 4e. I'm not saying it's a bad game, but come on the 3.x grognards got Pathfinder, where's our 3rd party carrying on?

Yeah, I must admit, I didn't find 13a to be that much to my liking, crunch-wise. They did execute on the 'fantasy super heroes' concept, I just wasn't that excited by HOW they did it, overall.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You don't think you're being a bit pessimistic?

I think there's as much 4e as OSR. And more than most non-D&D games, I think - look at boards for quite big fantasy RPGs like Rolemaster or Burning Wheel and I don't think you'll find a bigger community than 4e.

Nor do I think there are actually very many people who "hate it like 1000 Suns". There are like 12 dorks on this board who hate 4e basically. They'll troll limitlessly the same tired "I just don't like it, its crap, everyone hates it, blah blah blah." but when I actually go out and sit down and have people play in my games, there's no such 'hate'. I have had plenty of players, plenty of fun, no issues of any sort whatsoever aside from one or two extremists. Frankly I don't really like having people in my games that are so wrapped up in what edition of D&D it is that they care anyway.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

You don't think you're being a bit pessimistic?

I think there's as much 4e as OSR. And more than most non-D&D games, I think - look at boards for quite big fantasy RPGs like Rolemaster or Burning Wheel and I don't think you'll find a bigger community than 4e.

That's interesting that your perception is so sharply at odds with my own. And I am not disagreeing with you as I am not part of active gaming community: I play online with my friends in another country. That, no doubt, skews my perceptions because my only other contact with RPGers is via forums and blogs.

BTW, I was being pessimistic, per se, when I typed what I did. I'm actually really happy with 4E and I cannot help but think there will be a later renaissance of interest because it really does address a lot of problems encountered in other editions (including 5E). Not that it's perfect, of course, but it does rock hard, as Suzi Quatro might sing....

 

[MoutonRustique]

The thing about 4e I've found that makes it seem (be it true or not, is rather hard to say - which is actually the point) very small and isolated is that there isn't a large group to be found somewhere. It looks like there are a bunch scattered here, there and everywhere.

I've found you guys over here on ENworld, a few active people on the GitPG forums and 4enclave (that name though, if anything could make it feel like 4e was dying and under assault, that name would be it!). Admittedly, I'm not that much of a forum enthusiast and I've not gone to rpg.net and have stayed away from WotC* but I can't imagine there being that many active people there - but I could be wrong.

*I left the WotC forums after the aggravation of the h4ters became to much to bear with regards to the enjoyment I was deriving from visiting the forums - that I needed to use an alter browser was the coffin nail.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The thing about 4e I've found that makes it seem (be it true or not, is rather hard to say - which is actually the point) very small and isolated is that there isn't a large group to be found somewhere. It looks like there are a bunch scattered here, there and everywhere.

I've found you guys over here on ENworld, a few active people on the GitPG forums and 4enclave (that name though, if anything could make it feel like 4e was dying and under assault, that name would be it!). Admittedly, I'm not that much of a forum enthusiast and I've not gone to rpg.net and have stayed away from WotC* but I can't imagine there being that many active people there - but I could be wrong.

*I left the WotC forums after the aggravation of the h4ters became to much to bear with regards to the enjoyment I was deriving from visiting the forums - that I needed to use an alter browser was the coffin nail.

Yeah, last I checked the h4ters are STILL on the WotC 4e forums! You can still usually get some questions answered in the Q&A, etc, but its not exactly hopping. rpg.net has quite a lot of active posters on 4e, lots of 'lets read' threads, etc. Actually I'd say its the best place to discuss 4e stuff these days, though obviously you can do it here too and get a decent response.

4enclave is pretty dead. You may get a post or two now and then, but its clearly fallen below the threshold to be considered an 'active' site for discussion.

Overall, I think 4e is still pretty active. Its obviously not got the attention that 5e has, or PF still has, but for a game that has no active support beyond DDI still being up its certainly the next most active D&D. You can find adventures, get help, people still produce material, etc. That's pretty good, really.

 

[tyrlaan]

The thing about 4e I've found that makes it seem (be it true or not, is rather hard to say - which is actually the point) very small and isolated is that there isn't a large group to be found somewhere. It looks like there are a bunch scattered here, there and everywhere.

I've found you guys over here on ENworld, a few active people on the GitPG forums and 4enclave (that name though, if anything could make it feel like 4e was dying and under assault, that name would be it!). Admittedly, I'm not that much of a forum enthusiast and I've not gone to rpg.net and have stayed away from WotC* but I can't imagine there being that many active people there - but I could be wrong.

*I left the WotC forums after the aggravation of the h4ters became to much to bear with regards to the enjoyment I was deriving from visiting the forums - that I needed to use an alter browser was the coffin nail.

Sums up my experience as well.

I moved to Missouri almost 3 years ago, and I've yet to see a single posting/advert for a 4e game at my FLGS; it's almost all Pathfinder and some 3e.

In the 4e game that I ran, I had two players say they wouldn't be willing to stick with the game more than another year if it stayed in 4e (it had another 5 years to it without deliberate retooling/accelerating).

When I bought a 4e splatbook back in NJ from a FLGS, the store OWNER literally mocked the product and chided me for buying it.


To not dwell or simply commiserate, I've only ever had two problems with 4e.

One is combat time, and this thread has spoken to that such that I feel I have new ideas on how to make it a non-issue next time I run 4e (if I get that chance!).

The other is that the GSL is terrible. I have my own campaign world with distinct races and classes that I've been on-again-off-again designing for an absurd number of years. I started working on it through the OGL/d20STL, but was doing a lot of extra work to bend it to what I wanted. When 4e came out, it was a much better fit, but the GSL was too restrictive. And writing a system from scratch sounds good....until you start doing it and realize how momentous a task it is for one person who's only working on it when you get time after work, etc.

I'm actually finding 13thAge to be a good system to turn to for building out my stuff, especially since it's OGL plus Archmage Engine License. Which incidentally leaves me curious to hear why some of the folks in this thread don't care for the system.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

The thing about 4e I've found that makes it seem (be it true or not, is rather hard to say - which is actually the point) very small and isolated is that there isn't a large group to be found somewhere. It looks like there are a bunch scattered here, there and everywhere. (snip)

That's a better way of saying what I said up-thread.

(snip) I've found you guys over here on ENworld, a few active people on the GitPG forums and 4enclave (that name though, if anything could make it feel like 4e was dying and under assault, that name would be it!). Admittedly, I'm not that much of a forum enthusiast and I've not gone to rpg.net and have stayed away from WotC* but I can't imagine there being that many active people there - but I could be wrong.

*I left the WotC forums after the aggravation of the h4ters became to much to bear with regards to the enjoyment I was deriving from visiting the forums - that I needed to use an alter browser was the coffin nail.

I think the WotC forums - along with the WotC website - are arguably one of the worst advertisements for D&D as a game and as a hobby. There are just so many damaged people posting there whose chief interest in life seems to be trying to damage others. I believe there was something of a purge - and some came here - but WotC really needs to aggressively clean up their boards.

Yeah, last I checked the h4ters are STILL on the WotC 4e forums! You can still usually get some questions answered in the Q&A, etc, but its not exactly hopping. rpg.net has quite a lot of active posters on 4e, lots of 'lets read' threads, etc. Actually I'd say its the best place to discuss 4e stuff these days, though obviously you can do it here too and get a decent response. (snip)

I agree: RPG.net can be really good for 4E discussions, particularly with the Let's Read threads. And the modding is sometimes super-aggressive so you don't get posters behaving like they do at the WotC forums.

(snip) Overall, I think 4e is still pretty active. Its obviously not got the attention that 5e has, or PF still has, but for a game that has no active support beyond DDI still being up its certainly the next most active D&D. You can find adventures, get help, people still produce material, etc. That's pretty good, really.

There also seems to be a few active games at Obsidian Portal.

(snip) When I bought a 4e splatbook back in NJ from a FLGS, the store OWNER literally mocked the product and chided me for buying it. (snip)

There is only one worthwhile reply to that: "Thanks. You've just reminded me I can buy this more cheaply at Amazon!"

(snip) To not dwell or simply commiserate, I've only ever had two problems with 4e.

One is combat time, and this thread has spoken to that such that I feel I have new ideas on how to make it a non-issue next time I run 4e (if I get that chance!).

The other is that the GSL is terrible. (snip)

How does the GSL being terrible - which it is - harm your game? Or are you looking to publish something?

My "problem" with 4E is that it doesn't suit casual players. It's really a system where you have to pay attention and manage your character sheet. That said, I prefer players who do pay attention and can actually manage their character sheet so it's not really a problem.

Also, it has made me an electronic tools addict. I really have no interest in systems that don't have them. I even look at 13th Age - which is so much lighter - and wish there were character and monster builders and also a compendium. I like reading books... but I like searching for information electronically.

(snip) I'm actually finding 13thAge to be a good system to turn to for building out my stuff, especially since it's OGL plus Archmage Engine License. Which incidentally leaves me curious to hear why some of the folks in this thread don't care for the system.

I haven't had a chance to run it yet but I still have plans for a Midnight campaign powered by 13th Age. I really like the game but I'm not a fan of the world which means, if I want to run 13th Age in a world I like, I have to put the work into working out equivalents/replacements for the Icons. Or not.

 

[dream66_]

I'm actually finding 13thAge to be a good system to turn to for building out my stuff, especially since it's OGL plus Archmage Engine License. Which incidentally leaves me curious to hear why some of the folks in this thread don't care for the system.

For my part, the biggest best assets of 4e are Tactical Mini's combat, the AEDU system, and non-magical healing.

13th Age talks about how it's built off of 4e, and seems to hate all of those.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

For my part, the biggest best assets of 4e are Tactical Mini's combat, the AEDU system, and non-magical healing.

13th Age talks about how it's built off of 4e, and seems to hate all of those.

How does 13th Age hate those things?

It has tactical combat which doesn't require minis but can work just as well if you use them.

It has its own version of AEDU.

It has non-magical healing.

I'm not seeing the hate. I'm not even seeing mild dislike.