Whose "property" are the PCs?

[The_Universe]

But it's more than money. I think you are correct in thinking it was probably codified for monetary reasons, but there are authors who I am sure would be mortified if someone took a character and did something to it because it is something they created. I read some of your story hour and it sounds like that was based on a campaign? If so, then you may not be making any money off it but you are making it public and I think players would be annoyed if their characters were altered and then presented publicly (not that I'm saying you're doing that, but I'm just pointing out that not all stories make money).

I *am* doing that, and they don't mind (even though I've horribly twisted a couple of them) because we understand that neither they nor I can effect either "ideal" version of what's imagined. It's the same universe as far as I'm concerned, but if they'd prefer to imagine it's not, I'm not going to stop them. I wouldn't, and I couldn't.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Ah. I understand, now. We have different goals. My goals are to create a shared story of daring-do that can be shared with others and retold amongst the participants. As GM, I'm responsible for weaving all these tales into an ongoing history of a continuing effort.

There is only one version of the story to share.

I agree completely *during game play* - that's my goal as well *while I play.*

But - if the DM wanted to take my character when the story was all said and done and use her in a way to set up a new campaign (without my knowledge or approval): that's absolutely fine and he/she should be able to do so.

 

[The_Universe]

Hey The_Universe... does this remind you of anything? *cough* Kevin J. Anderson making Mara Jade into Lando's love toy and Timothy Zahn writing two more books to fix that *cough* lol

Sure sure. There's a difference between altering a character in a way that makes no sense (KJ Anderson) and using a character in a way that at least attempts to be faithful to the way the character has previously acted (but may alter certain motivations and/or ideas about the character - Tim Zahn).

 

[SG1Laura]

So, you're saying that it is no longer the same character once the DM takes control AND that it is the same universe? I'm not sure how these both can be true


It would be interesting to know- you state that NW couldn't enforce his version on you. Do you even know what his version is?

Also- since NW is here- DO you mind?

 

[reveal]

And that, friends is why I married him: he can always seem to say what I want to say, but better.

Huh. I always assumed it was because he had a huge..............................television set.

 

[Belen]

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here and guess that most of the responses so far come from "career" GM's... I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with most of you. The player owns the character, simply put.

The player does not own the character. The character is not some great artistic piece of work. It is a game piece created to play a game. It has numbers and stats and (sometimes) a personality.

I have never "asked" a player if I can use them as an NPC. If the character is alive and the player is no longer playing the character, then that PC has become an NPC. The character is a piece of the world.

Now, I would never take someone's old character and make it public without their permission, but I have zero qualms about private use. The idea that an old character is the "property" of the player is laughable. It was a character in a game and part of a collective story.

Now, as I said before, I give players the option of writing a finale for their characters at the end of the game. If their character appears in a later campaign, then I usually keep it within the bounds of their "finale."

However, I have every right as a GM to use a character as a NPC. If I had a player who got into a tizzy because they owned it and I have no right to portray it without their permission, then said person should find another game. I do not want to deal with some crazed drama queen in a game that I play for funny. It is a hobby, not a career.

I have never had a player complain about having an old character make a cameo. Heck, I have had a least two old character return as evil undead foes. It did not seem to bother the players, except for one who lamented the fact that he had created so "effective" a combat moneky.

 

[reveal]

So, you're saying that it is no longer the same character once the DM takes control AND that it is the same universe? I'm not sure how these both can be true


It would be interesting to know- you state that NW couldn't enforce his version on you. Do you even know what his version is?

Serious question real quick: Why post asking for peoples opinions and then argue with them about said opinions? Are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

 

[NuclearWookiee]

Right on. Once the player isn't playing him, he's not the same character, at least not exactly.

Interestingly, I've done this exact thing to one (or two) of Nuclear Wookiee's characters, and neither of us has been too upset about it. I don't think I did anything that conflicted with the way *he* would have, but he wasn't there - so it didn't really matter, either. If he doesn't like it, he can say it was "alternate universe" or a different character with a similar name and history and it wouldn't really matter to either of us.

There's *nothing I could do* to corrupt the way he chooses to imagine it, and there's *nothing he can do* to enforce his version in my mind. Accepting that is the key.

"Right on" right back at ya. Playing a game under a GM is just an agreement that you're both imagining the same thing at the same time.

 

[S'mon]

Mmm... not so much vindictive. Either the character exists in my world or it exists in another world. I've had a couple of experiences where I've been talking to another GM about a cool character in their game and it turns out it was a character that originated in my game. It felt... awkward. Like having Luke Skywalker show up in Aliens or something like that. Thus the rule. If Luke's over there, he can't be here.

Also, I tend to do things like have PCs ascend to godhood (only once), rule nations, or save the world. It's bizarre in the extreme to have the Regent of Dace also be a merc-for-hire for the King of Cormyr.

Ah... I grew up reading Michael Moorcock's Multiverse novels, so I see we have a very different perspective. To me there's nothing odd about a PC being 2 different things in 2 different universes.

 

[SG1Laura]

Serious question real quick: Why post asking for peoples opinions and then argue with them about said opinions? Are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

Yep