Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[EricNoah]

I've gotten to the point where I don't have a lot of use for more "tools" or "pieces" -- I like to see what already exists all put together. That's where Dungeon shines in a lot of ways. I also have been put off by the greater emphasis on the D&D minis. And I've been buying less D&D stuff lately anyway.

 

[Sundog]

Generally, there's not much passion in the magazine anymore. I see usable mechanics, sometimes innovative mechanics, but I don't see text with them that makes me want to use them.
....
The ecology articles used to inspire, they told stories, they were funny or creepy or exciting.
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This applies to most everything in the magazine.
...
So what would make me happier, and encourage me to buy more? Cutting open the creative veins again. Getting a bit crazier with your articles, and a return of more pure flavor, flavor, flavor.

This pretty much sums everything up for me. I still subscribe but I'm not sure I'm going to renew. I'll definitely keep my Dungeon subscription, though. Thanks Erik!

 

[Dragonhelm]

My two steel.

I'll offer some thoughts both on Dragon and Dungeon.

My favorite part of Dungeon was the mini-games in Polyhedron. I'm sure they weren't always the easiest thing to put together, but the idea that I could get a mini-game every couple of months was fantastic. The adventures don't always appeal to me. As for the recent GM-centric articles, I haven't seen anything that grabs me. Dungeon just doesn't seem to have anything that attracts me, so I hardly ever pick up a copy.

As for Dragon, I have picked it up a bit more recently, mainly due to the articles dealing with conversions of 2nd edition setting materials. The issue you had a while back that was all about the D&D settings was my favorite in a long while. Seeing articles like the recent one on the Lupin was good too.

Setting updates are always welcome, although I would advise caution on how you approach things. The Dark Sun update had some good points to it (i.e. LA for each race), but being that it was a PHB-centric approach and not true to the setting (i.e. half-giants and axis alignment, cannibalistic halflings), it just wasn't as good as it could have been.

The problem with Dragon at times is that it becomes just another splat book. Yes, I like new rules, but the crunch has to be balanced with the fluff. Just another Ultimate Warrior PrC (example) does nothing for me. What I would like to see is something new and different. The Bloodline feats, for example, are a good use of rules that can add a certain amount of fluff.

Here are some things I would like to see:

1. More mini-settings and updates to older settings. Rules are the tools that one uses in order to adventure. We need more places to have those adventures.

Perhaps you could design your own setting and detail it bit by bit each issue. That would be something new and exciting, plus it would keep readers hooked.

2. Provide something new and different. Whether rules or fluff, give me something new. Articles on optimizing character classes or how to be a better GM hold little to no interest for me. I've been playing/GMing for about 13 years now. I think I can manage.

Instead, I'd like to see new ideas for games. Bloodline feats are a way to do it in a crunchy fashion. More fluff articles would be helpful too. Maybe articles on how to play games with certain themes (i.e. swashbuckling, grim and gritty). Perhaps some articles on running a world without magic, or one where there are psionics but no magic.

If you do provide new crunchy stuff, then please shy away from concepts that have been done over and over. Swashbuckler type of characters have been done. No need for any new PrCs there. Doing a beast rider would be better. Even though it has been done, the only examples I can think of are the 2e Complete Fighter's Handbook and the mounted warrior in Warcraft.

3. Psionics. They're finally getting some support after all these years, and I'd like to see more of it. Get Mark Jindra and Scott Brocious (sp?) to write more articles on psionics, like what they did with the Mind's Eye articles.

4. Bard on the Run - I loved those articles for the April issue. Bring it back!

5. More 3rd party material. I don't know what your agreement is with WotC, but maybe more materials compatable with systems like Arcana Unearthed. Maybe a few non-d20 products (Yes, they still exist!) could be looked at too.

Anyway, those are a few thoughts from me. Basically, I want to be able to open Dragon each month and say, "Wow, look at this! Neat concept! I'll have to try that out!".

What I don't want is to pick up an issue, realize there's nothing inside that interests me, and question why I even bought it. I know not every article will appeal to me, but I hope that at least one will per issue and that I will feel that the magazine was not only worth buying, but worth using.

Hope that helps.

 

[kennew142]

I'm about half-way through a much needed vacation, so of course I'm sitting here thinking about work.

I know many of you _do_ buy Dragon regularly, and for that I send you a hearty holdiay cheer and a simple statement: thanks.

But I also know that many of you don't buy Dragon, and I'd like to know why. Over my 20+ years as a D&D player, I've had "on" periods and "off" periods with the magazine, so I know what sorts of things went into my personal decision not to buy Dragon, but I'd like to know yours.

If I can make some changes to the magazine to make it a more attractive purchase, there's a chance we all go away happy.

So, if you're _not_ a regular customer of Dragon magazine (let's say you buy fewer than three issues annually), please take a minute or two to answer the following questions.

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

I very much appreciate your time and attention.

Thanks,

Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon Magazine (and Dungeon too!)
Still on vacation, still working

1. I do buy the magazine, but will likely stop after this subscription runs out. I don't like having so many feats and prestige classes in each issue. I do not use them, and I'm unlikely to allow them in any game I'm running.

2. I would like to see articles related to specific campaign worlds. This includes Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Eberron (yes, this one too). Let's not forget the classic D&D campaign worlds such as Dark Sun, Planescape, Birthright and Ravenloft. It would also be nice to see articles pertaining to the worlds of other publishers, especially Arcanis or Freeport.

Put all the articles about gaming back in Dragon. Over the last 25+ years, I've been mostly interested in the articles about campaign design, monsters, adaptations from history and fiction, and those that presented new cabals, organizations and enemies. I'm going to buy Dungeon for the adventures, no matter what. In which magazine would you publish an article that detailed a secret organization that could be used as an enemy or a patron to player characters?

No fiction. Since issue #39 I've read only two pieces of fiction that have appeared in the magazine.

Get rid of the D&D minis articles. What a waste of space. I think you will find that most RPGers have a very negative reaction to seeing this in the magazine. I would feel the same way if the magazine included a monthly article on card games. Slapping a D&D label on a miniatures (or card game) DOES NOT make it D&D.

Stop assuming that every reader is a newbie trying to learn "what a druid should carry in his backpack!"

More articles that include variations on the core rules, as opposed to new ways to munchkin out a character. I really liked the article that included a 3 ed look at defiler magic!

Articles that are useful for playing the game (as opposed to a monotonous list of new feats and prestige classes), such as a random treasure table that included all of the magic items from the core rules, the Complete Books, the Expanded Psionics Book, the Forgotten Realms books, etc.... Articles on naming characters and developing interesting background stories.

Oh well, I've ranted enough. I'll reiterate one point. Moving the GM articles to Dungeon has decreased the utility of the magazine (for me) to the point where I'll likely let my subscription lapse. As a GM, if I don't buy it, I won't be able to read it, none of the players in my game will be able to use it, so they will have no reason to buy it either.

Thanks,

Kenneth New

 

[Harlock]

So, if you're _not_ a regular customer of Dragon magazine (let's say you buy fewer than three issues annually), please take a minute or two to answer the following questions.

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

Well, I am one of your pains in the ass. I subscribed for two years solid but let my subscription falter after the "format" change in issue 323. The new format was not real pretty, maybe the kinks are worked out now, I dunno. What don't I like about the changes? Fair enough. I'm going through page by page and some of this is idicative of just this issue while other points are definitely a habit of Dragon in general.

1. All the sidebars made it too busy and seemed to cut down on real content. Knowledge check, question: Conan, what is best in life? Answer: We all know, don't waste space in a magazine I paid for to rehash that! on the same page we have a plug for a wbsite that sells gaming-related T-shirts. Guess what? Still not enthused. If I want a t-shirt I'll google for it, thanks. Next page? Plush microbes and of course, the link to buy them... no thanks.

2. The focus on D&D/WotC specific crap. Yes, I know this is a WotC licensed product, but my hopes were high that when Paizo took the license we'd see some changes. Looking through the magazine I see articles for the D&D Miniatures game. Well, there's and article I won't bother with, I see som feats at the end... too little too late. I don't play the minis game, I buy the minis and even own the minis Handbook, but I use them in tabletop D&D, not the CMG.

Next Article: Stuff on a D&D Young Adult line from, you guessed it, WotC. Great. I'm 31 and my oldest child is 5. The cheesy attempt to give it some sort of value by including stat blocks of characters from the novel only served to take up even more space that could have been used for something cool. And, if you have the issue out, Erik, please look into the wasted space on page 31, 34, 52, 66, 71, 78 - really terrible here, 80, 86 (using 24 pt type and leaving 2 standard columns of space on either side of the article title is a sophomorish attempt at best to cover up for lack of real content), 90, 92, 110, and a bit on 130 as well.

Erik, this is unforgiveable. As a journalism student in high School I was taught not to waste space as badly as this. It's jarring to the reader to turn a page and see so much white space and you're not fooling anyone. Add some art, even stock art, put a preface by the author covering intent or something, anything!

3. Articles that are not WotC specific are hit or miss at best. An entire two pages dedicated to Chocobos from Final Fantasy? An article comparing and contrasting Knights and Samurai asking who would win and then not answering the question? Thanks for the 10 page history lesson but how does it help my Dungeons and Dragons game? Wanna see who wins? Roll up two characters and have three battles.

4. This is a personal thing, but I don't play video games, so huge articles dedicated to the next, new, hot D&D game only serves as eye candy as I look at the graphics as I flip to the next article.

What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

Thanks for asking, all this negativity was getting to me! You had some great things in this issue, don't get me wrong. I loved the class specific articles at the back. Even if I don't use the ideas, it got me thinking. The Seven Deadly Sins domains articles was spiffy. May not ever use it either, but at least it's D&D. The Ecology articles are ALWAYS welcome. I'm not a pure crunch person, though looking at this I sound like it. Truly, I like fluff, but it needs to be specific: ideas for Campaign settings, 100 adventure hooks that don't suck, Ecology articles, stuff like that.

Also, and very important to get me back as a subscriber, more OGL content and previews/reviews of d20 product that is not WotC. Campaign settings, feat books, cool web sites that don't sell t-shirts or plushy microbes...

My Main Point: I buy Dragon for using at my table top D&D games as both a player and DM and as a consumer to see what else is coming down the pipe for use in my tabletop game. If I want a Fantasy fiction magazine about literature, I'll buy one. If I want a video game magazine, I'll google up articles that are all over the web or I'll buy one. If I want a D&D magazine... to whom do I turn... now?

 

[swrushing]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

I was last subscribed during my dnd 3.0 game and that subscription came up for renewal as 3.5 came out. i let it lapse because i was not converting over to 3.5 and i figured the bulk of the material in dragon would be keeping up with the new edition. Matter of fact, the last couple issues i got were 3.5 previews or somesuch. they were mostly unread.

Nowadays, i may end up going a little into 3.5, as in i plan to run a Black Company game, once green Ronin's sourcebook comes out, which is based off 3.5's system. i pretty much plan to just use the SRD. The other game i am involved in using Midnight. I expect to see little support for these in dragon, so... not much draw there.

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

All my current games-in-progress or "on the horizon" games are not DND but some are third party d20/OGL games, so unless dragon started really upping the amoutn of third party game lines support, there would not be much of a draw for me.

maybe its a mark of the success of the OGL notion, but the quality of third party products has gone up so much AND the variety of them (no longer are they just DnD clones) is now so far from DND that predominantly DnD based material is less and less of use or interest to me and those i know who are gaming.

 

[Style]

I'll reiterate one point. Moving the GM articles to Dungeon has decreased the utility of the magazine (for me) to the point where I'll likely let my subscription lapse. As a GM, if I don't buy it, I won't be able to read it, none of the players in my game will be able to use it, so they will have no reason to buy it either.

Reiterating myself as well, but I do think that this a key issue. The best stuff has been moved over to Dungeon, leaving precious little meat for Dragon, so no wonder that Dragon suffers as a result and no wonder that folks like the new Dungeon so much.

For me the solution would be to reincorporate all gaming articles into Dragon and make room for more or bigger adventures in Dungeon. Maure Castle and the Isle of Dread were great. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have room to do something like this on a regular basis? A Return to the Barrier Peaks, Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, the Desert of Desolation or any of the classics (not to mention a truly meaty Adventure Path series) would be so much more feasible if the balance was restored to the winning approach of former years.

Erik, if you are wondering why interest in Dragon is flagging, it is because it has had half of its heart ripped out and left with fleshy pulp in its place. Give the old girl her heart back and let Dungeon develop into a top-notch source for the kinds of weighty adventures that folks are clamouring for - the kind that WotC no longer publishes at all.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Interesting question, Erik, and something I think about from time to time.

I'll preface my comments by saying that I used to be an avid "Dragon" reader for many, many years: I never missed a month. I still refer to many of the old articles, which we've updated to 3rd Edition.. (The two-part article on "The Nine Hells" published way-back-when, the "Witch" character class, the "Death Master". and lots of other stuff, which I won't enumerate here.) But towards the end of 2nd Edition and into 3rd Edition, I've lost the love I used to have.

I guess the reason I don't read "Dragon" now is manyfold. (Some of which you have no control over, of course.): many of these were already listed by others, but I'm still including them in my list, simply as an FYI.

First, I'm an older gamer, so I already have tons and tons of stuff that I've purchased over the years that fits my needs, or that I can adapt with some effort.

Second, I don't buy much WotC stuff in general. My interest lies in "fluff" more than crunch. I buy stuff from Fantasy Flight (the "Midnight" setting, AEG, Mongoose (Conan, Lone Wolf, B5). I bought and -loved-
the "Draconomicon", but I was sorely disappointed by "Libris Mortis."

Third, (and this is just MHO), I'll agree with Arcane Runes Press:

The text is dry, in other words, and lacks the manic wonder that lots of the older issues had - the good natured humour and oddball enthusiasm isn't there as much, and the magazine reads more like a trade journal than a place where writers and fans come together to gush about their enthusiasms.

I'll go further and say that "Dragon" seems like it's currently geared towards the teenager set. ("Add gunpowder to your D+D game!", "How to play a Dragon PC", "13 new prestige classes", "27 new feats", etc.)

Fourth, I used to also look forward to the campaign-specific info. (Again, I culled lots of great Dark-Sun, Ravenloft and Planescape info in years-gone-by.): since I don't play Eberron, Forgotten Realms, and there seems to be very little Greyhawk stuff, this is not a factor anymore.

Fifth, the "Dark-Sun" revision. While I appreciate that you wanted to revive an older campaign-setting, but, IMHO, the revisions didn't live up to the original in any way, and more, (again, IMO), it disprespected the source material. I understand, from reading the authors posts, why things happened the way they did, but the whole issue didn't sit well with me.

Sixth, the price to usefulness ratio. (Again, this is something you probably have no control over.): $7 a month is quite expensive for me to get some articles of dubious usefullness. It seems like the page-count is low for the amount of actual infomration the reader gets, as the few issues I leafed through over the past year have more and more pages of ads.

 

[Emirikol]

Erik:

I've been a subscriber for maybe a dozen years. I see the current lack of integration with actual campaign lines and the RPGA to be the main drawback. Sure, this is an official D&D magazine, but it caters only to "home" gamers.

I don't have much home gaming time left anymore, so I rely on the RPGA and published campaigns to fill my time. If an article appears in Dragon that doesn't 'fit,'[EDIT: specifically tailored to a world that I use or the RPGA] it becomes useless to me..really. Well, look at where we are now.

Another thing I've noticed that even though I leave it on our gaming table when we game, none of the other players ever picks it up and reads it. Perhaps it should say "share this with your players" right on the cover. Maybe there's a 'don't touch my stuff' attitude in D&D too that could be overcome. You know, the opposite of what is written on a bag of a certain brand of potato chips could be included.

The article quality is otherwise excellent and I'm very happy with the consistent new formatting (thank you, thank you thank you). But, it's integration into the 'official' stuff is what's really lacking now.

You know, Dungeon has this thing called, "Adapting the adventure." It shows how to adapt to different levels (the greatest thing ever for scenarios..makes them immensely more useful). Why doesn't each Dragon (and DUNGEON) article have the same sidebar for adapation in each of the three major D&D worlds?

Lastly, I know the RPGA may be hard to work with, but continued integration with them may be a good draw too.

JayH


..

 

[Eosin the Red]

I only purchase sporadically now days and here is why:

1. If you can say it in 2 pages I have already heard it. Get into the subject – especially in the meaty articles. If you do an article on sewers then show me examples – like the much touted Paris sewers, compare that with other sewers in Europe and or Asia.
2. Bland writing. I just read another thread about great articles – it mentioned Saintly Standards an article I will still refer to on occasion. I still sometimes get out the article on the Red Sails Campaign but I did not finish any of the articles in the most recent magazine.
3. Both of these are just ways of saying entertain me. I don’t buy the magazine for rules or to learn of the newest “heavenly, half a what-cha-ma-call-it, half-thingy-ma-bob, vampire, ascended, plane touched, fighter-sorcerer-halfling” I buy the magazine to be entertained and right now it ain’t doing that.
4. I cannot say it enough or loud enough so I will say it again – The magazine should be fun to read all by itself. It should be entertaining. It should be relevant even if I play Hero System instead of d20 (I did not say it should have Hero articles BUT I did say that I should be able to use many of the articles for whatever game system I want).
5. The great advertisement! Dragon focuses overmuch on the most current WotC product especially hyped products like Draconomicon or Vile Darkness. There is nothing wrong with thematically supporting products but that is rarely what happens – instead we get “you can use product X like this” and “cool feat from product X.” If you want to support Vile Darkness write an article on the use of horrific enemies in the RPGs. Give me a write-up on Saint Kargoth. Talk about Death-Knights in Greyhawk (PS – that was also a really good article even if it was in poly).

In conclusion, purpose of the magazine is profit and the way to profit is to provide entertainment value to a broad range of people. Focusing on gizmos does not do that (but there is nothing wrong with a recurring article on gizmos like Bizarre of the Bizarre). Focusing on providing informative and compelling articles that are useful in ANY fantasy campaign is a must but it does not have to be generic. You could have an article called “Cities of Eberron” and make the article useful to any campaign and you can do it without the use of a sidebar. It takes more skillful writing but it is perfectly doable, in fact Dragon has done it before. Entertain. Enthrall. Write good fiction not technical fiction.

Oh yeah, kudos on continuing to always strive to get better. Dragon and Dungeon have some really good things going for them but that is not what this thread is about – lest this post end on a bad note I will finish with this: The Dungeon magazine with the first of the Istivan series contained the single best written setting and intro module that I have read in a very long time. The villain and his methods are insanely well done. This adventure can be taken and played anywhere and in nearly any setting. The antagonist is someone/thing that can be easily morphed into just about any homebrew unlike your previous series which focused on a heavily monster infested world with everybody having at least one dose of what-ya-ma-gigging. I had nearly given up on Dungeon but my faith was renewed. Thank you.

With all that – you guys do a great job.

"Kewl are only cool for a moment, entertaining articles endure no matter what the edtion or system of the game."