Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[The Lost Muse]

I don't subscribe to Dragon or Dungeon; however, the reason for this is that I cannot go to a storre and buy either magazine. I would be much more likely to subscribe to Dungeon because I mostly DM, but the features I like in magazines include:

1) Comics - Especially a satire about gaming would be hilarious! Get Order of the Stick!!!

2) Articles on different aspects of the game that are interesting to read, and not dry. A written debate with multiple viewpoints would also be interesting.

3) Reviews of d20 products, and not just WotC stuff.

4) A balance between flavor and crunch. Things that are modular and can be dropped into my campaign.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[DM_Jeff]

Dragon

>>1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

First, thanks for even asking, Erik!

I currently subscribe. It's important to point out why, however.

* Collecting. I started subscribing with issue #78. I collected back issues into the teens. I never let my subscription run out because I always found it just useful enough. Wow, I guess I'm your favorite type of customer.

* For the past 7 years my wife has been an avid contributor to Dragon. Apart from that we've heavily questioned renewing our subscription each year because our eyes pass over stuff too typical, dull, or not of interest to our game right now. And now, her recent articles (for DM's) have moved to Dungeon, which we love to no end and have no beef with whatsoever!

We've ID'd why we don't read it or use it as much anymore:

>>2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

We never read the fiction. Fiction schmiction, gotta go.

Nodwick is a good comic, and the only one that we really enjoy.

Dragon needs to be more modular, or it needs a comphrehensive, constantly updated index of stuff. Modular in that I skim Dragon every month. I need stuff for use in my game right now. By the end of the week, not to mention the end of the month, that issue is out of my head and on the shelf. It would stay at my table for the month and see much more use if there were:

1) Monster article every issue with three beasties. One with stats, fluff, and ecology all rolled into one. And of three different CR's, low, medium and high. How useful would it be to read a cool, short description of an adventuring party with the creature, the creature's stats for the DM, and then a short treatment of the ecology of the creature. I'm sure to use at least ONE of the monsters at CR 3, 9 or 16 (for example) in my campaign that very month. Even if just as a random encounter. How is this useful to players too? Make notes on how they can be replaced in a summon monster spell or used as an ally.

2) Magic items. Not 50, about 5 or 6. With a price guide to quickly tell which one I can use in my campaign right now. 1 or 2 worth less than 2,000 gp, 1 or 2 worth 3-5,000 and a couple worth 10,000 or more. With good histories/stories behind them to make them interesting to read or inspire adventure hooks. I can then immediately realise what level of item I can use at my table that very month and make use of the article. They're not just for the DM. If a player wants his PC to create one, there's the idea and numbers to use.

3) NPC's. Just like monsters. Three, at low, medium and high level. Friends and villains alike. With a little intro story, crunch stats, then fluff on its purpose, profession, role, whatever, in a game.

In each of the cases above, note hardly any space would be wasted giving a little sentence such as "In Greyhawk..." "In the Realms..." "In Eberron..." to satisfy all fans or ignore as they please.

4) "PC Projects". Like "How can I start a guild in the game." "How can I start a mercenary company." "How can I start and run a tavern." "How can my PC rebuild a damaged reputation." If the magazine is really supposedly aimed at players give them something to read based on stuff many of them want to do in a game but don't know how to approach. A complete article, not a bunch of half-baked ideas, but a beginning to end piece.

5) Fun stuff. Not fun-ny, just fun. Articles by known names on topics typical to D&D players. Opinion-based articles with fun and lively discussion ideas. That infamous whacky article by Sean K. Reynolds on his site lambasting everyone for saying "enchant a magic item" is incorrect in 3.0 terms was hilarious and just what I'm talking about. Over-the-top, opinionated, get-your blood flowing topics covered with wit, humor and purpose.

6) Toys. A while back either Dungeon or Dragon would each have poster-sized maps with grids for miniatures use. The one for town streets STILL see use at my table to this day, more locations as such would be excellent.

Speaking of minitaures, we use them constantly. My wife paints and collects lead and I collect and adore the WotC plastic minis. But we use them in our RPG only, never the skirmish game. So while I would enjoy articles on their use, I would for the RPG only.

In general, I like the magazing, but can't use much of it at any given time. And by the time I think I can use an article in question it is lost among hundreds backlogged on my shelf with no easy way to find them.

Feats, Classes, Prestige Classes, these hardly come up needing each week, they go in and out of my head just as quickly. Monsters, magic items, equipment, NPC's: these are useful to players and DMs right away. And that's what I need out of my Dragon, stuff I can read which is fun and entertaining and applicable to my game right now, not in a month or a year.

Last but not least, folks have been saying the biggest competitor for Dragon's space is the internet nowadays, and while I somewhat agree, I must point out that many good immediate-use articles show up in one form or another on the WotC website, of all places.

But, for the record, the recent changes have been for the better and have shown good work.

-DM Jeff

 

[francisca]

I'm a subscriber, 3 issues left, and I am going to let it lapse. Here is why:

1) Miniature Game. I don't play it. No interest here. I understand there is a market for Dragon to support with mini coverage, but I'm just not part of that crowd.
2) I don't want fiction in a gaming mag.
3) I already think there is enough Prestige Classes, races, spells, etc.. I just really don't need any more.
4) I'm really put off by the min/max articles. I don't care about the latest kewl build.
5) Ebberon. Don't play it. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who do, but again, for me, there is no point.


And now for the biggest reason: Except for the cover art on my last issue, I cannot tell you anything about it. Nothing. Not a single thing stuck in my head as useful or interesting, and I read it cover to cover. On the flipside, I can rememember several issues from the early 80s as if I read them this morning at breakfast.

Now, I did subscribe to Dungeon. The changes you have made there are great, Erik! I'll monitor Dragon for a couple of months, and if it morphs into something interesting, I'll probably re-sub.

 

[vrykyl]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

Erik,

I'll take a stab at answering the question, then give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

1. Right now DRAGON focuses on bringing new D&D material every month, and frankly I've got more than enough on my own game shelf. (Also, I'm one Google away from almost anything I would need.) After a few hundred prestige classes, feats, spells, magic items, there's just more than any one gamer could possibly use--or at least THIS gamer. None of the other articles are a big enough draw to make me igore the fact that most of the magazine has "crunchy" material that I don't need.

2. Give me material I CAN'T easily get from the web. Entertain me.

I was a subscriber to DRAGON for many years, during the Roger Moore years and after. The magazine was the best place to get certain kinds of news and insight. The problem is that we live in a different era now, and every game designer I respect has his own website or blog.

It's a formula hard to define, but if DRAGON were to make me smile like it did in the old days, I'd have a paid subscription again in a heartbeat. I guess I'd like the magazine to be "fun" again.

This is definitely not a slam at the current incarnation of DRAGON. I think the Paizo team does a great job in making the best DRAGON with its current focus. Unfortunately the focus just doesn't do much for me anymore.

Jamie Chambers

 

[Rumplestiltskin]

I've been subscribed to Dragon for many many years. I had a bit of a bad feeling when there were problems a few years ago and I ended up missing out on a good few months worth of deliveries. After that, I never resubscribed but I do still get the magazine from the store.

However, I find that I spend less time reading each issue than I used to. As said by other posts in this thread.... its just too "crunchy" lately. I just skip over the articles which cover prestige classes and stats, stats, stats. I prefer articles which add flavor to the game. How about creative articles, like bardic ballads etc? I'm a big Realms fan and was very disappointed to see that the Elminster articles had ended. I'd like to see more of the Realms covered in Dragon. All active campaigns should be given at least an article in the publication.

What I do like, is the coverage of new releases and also the catalog which was included in a recent issue

Also, there is very little coverage of novels. Considering that WotC have a huge Forgotten Realms, Eberron and Dragonlance novel line, they should get a lot of preview space and articles based on these novels.

Bring back campaign specific columns, cut down on the crunch and provide more flavor and it will be perfect.

 

[jasper]

Erick you can see my other comments on Wizards board.

Fiction. I don’t mind fiction as long it stays under 4 pages and prefer 2 since it was generally only suitable for bathroom reading
.
Rehashing I mentioned this over at wizards but others have said clearer. Except for new worlds most articles are rehashed for years ago. While this is not a bad thing always (and great for new players), but for us old farts it was not new when we went to second edition.

I agree with Auld Grump about OFFICIAL (instead divine music here) standard goes way back. How about the only official thing in the Dragon be Saga advice (and make sure you cover yourself) and nothing else. The Complete Elf book was one reason I create a house rule where the person had to buy me the book. Now as old fart it is core or the door as I am no longer addicted to D&D or other role playing games.

The backgrounds please keep with clearer backgrounds. Even my wife’s high brow magazines didn’t use as much ink as you use to. Some times it took me a few days to read an article because of bad contrast. (Great picture wish the words weren’t in the way). A good middle road approach would be either a half or full paper in the fancy background then back to normal after
that.

Include a small section (10%) on other role playing games. some the gama world and other articles back in day did get us to one shot a few games.

 

[The Shaman]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

The death of Polyhedron: I would often buy Dragon at the same time that I bought Dungeon/Polyhedron, otherwise I had no reason to walk past the newsrack in the gaming store. Even if it was the same issue of Dungeon/Polyhedron on the rack, I'd usually grab a new Dragon if it was there. Now I have no reason to even look at the covers.

Nuking Polyhedron was unconscionable to me. Bad call. Very bad call.

See the movie? No, I'll wait for the book: When so much of what gets published in Dragon will end up in a WotC supplement or accessory somewhere down the line, there's very little incentive to pay for something twice.

It's even more of a disincentive to buy Dragon when I pass on so many WotC books as it is, thanks to...

Rule overload: Every new feat, every new PrC, every new mechanic is just another rule added to the game. The longer I play d20 3.x, the more I find myself stripping the game down to basics: core rules, a couple of core classes from the Complete... books - that's all I really need anymore.

About the only thing that I would like to see more of are spells - it always stretches my credulity that a world in which magic has been in existence for thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years has so few spells, relatively speaking. I can usually cover for this in my world-creation background, but still, more magic certainly makes sense. However, I would still be reluctant to use spells published in Dragon as...

So much of what's in Dragon is pure crap: Unbalanced. Unplaytested. Published campaign-specific. Crap.

I recently started pouring through old issues of the magazine, as I'm cleaning out boxes from the garage (to make space for baby stuff that will be going into storage...one of the many joys of parenthood is the accelerated accumulation of "stuff"). I flipped through about thirty or so backissues, and decided to save five. That means that about two issues a year are keepers to me. And generally speaking that works about to about six articles a year.

Because this material often gets recycled as a WotC supplement, you can probably understand why I don't buy many of their books anymore, either.

And while this doesn't pertain to Dragon specifically, I would also like to chirp about...

Poor customer service: I purchased three or four Dungeon/Polyhedron backissues last month, and Paizo sent me unsaleable defectives - the covers were on wrong, pages were out of order, and so on. A warning that backissues paid for at well over the cover price may be newsstand rejects would have been appreciated.

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

I've wracked my brain and I can't think of any.

For me, the bottom line is that I picked up Dragon ultimately to support the publication of Polyhedron. With Polyhedron gone, I have no use for Dragon, or Dungeon either for that matter.

 

[theprofessor]

Too Much Crunch!!

First, I DO subscribe to Dragon (and Dungeon) and really like the new formats. However, to echo innumerable prior posts, Dungeon is the more useful of the two.

The problem I have with Dragon, again to echo innumerable prior posts, is too much crunch. I cannot possibly use 10 billion prestige classes, my players have zero interest in learning a gazillion new spells. The official WotC products provide more than enough new crunch to surprise my players.

What I do like is the flavour stuff. I passed issue 326 around a group of new players and they loved the Dungeon Delving Guide. That issue also had great articles on sewers and labyrinths. 325's War Magic article was good too.

I'd like to see more articles directed at helping players and dms do a better job (like the dungeon delving piece), more on monster tactics, more details on settings (places, people, organizations), rule clarifications and expansions (like WotC's Rules of the Game articles), and npcs (developing and developed).

That said, the new formats are great - keep up the good work!

 

[Jdvn1]

What's been repeated and needs to be emphasized, I think:

No stories. While neat, I'm not looking for a fantasy version of Analog.

More creativity. New uses for spells, feats, et cetera.

Or even monsters. There's a thread on here about making Goblins scarier. I've heard of a scenario where Kobolds overran a Wizard's tower and drank all of his potions. Kobolds with Bear's Endurance is a neat twist. Or breath weapons. New twists on old monsters are welcome.

And, yeah, support Psionics! A little crunch, a little fluff. And maybe even Epic stuff.

Also:

I really liked ... what was it called from Dungeon 100? Friends and Foes? I saw that Dire Lion Monk 12 and was like, "... Whoa, that's a really cool idea." I want stuff like that, stuff that makes me go, "Wow, I never thought of that before."

Some where on the Wizards site, they have Wild Life articles which gives a twist on the animal companion idea. That's creative. It also gives an option for multiclassed Druids who want a stronger animal following them around. Maybe a fighter article that specializes with a lesser used weapon like the Whip would be nice? Or a Wizard article that focuses on Abjuration? Or Divination? Or an article detailing the flexibility of Paladins? Assuming Dragon is supposed to be for players, give some character ideas. Anyone can roll up a Bard, but a lot of people think it's too weak. How about a neat Bard variant with sneak attack or evasion? Or tips on making a Bluff-based character? How about some feats that make my Dwarven Fighter into an Axe Specialist?

And to highlight what someone said before: One quality PrC with color is worth tons more than a bunch of weaker, generic PrC's. I'm not going to say 'worth its weight in gold' that's not saying much. It's paper.

As far as campaign setting support, I'd actually go for generic stuff that can be added to any campaign setting. Maybe something like a "How do adapt to FR" bit tagged to the end.

And I like Gamers-taking-about-gaming articles, like the "Why 1st level character suck" article recently.

When I stop by my gaming store, I pick up the latest Dungeon and the latest Dragon and flip through it. If there's something I like in it, I buy it. My Dungeons outnumber my Dragons roughly 4-1.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

I just caught up on the posting so far. Except for wanting to see more Eberron not less I agree with much that has been said.

One thing I would like to see is a group of four or five characters with a short history. Statted once as PCs and once as NPCs. And the right levels to be used in one of that month's Dungeon adventures.

The days of buying a module, handing out the pregenerated PCs, and playing are mostly gone. If Dragon had stats for a group of PCs that matched up with an adventure in Dungeon, that would be great. And if the stats also included NPCs stats, then home brewers could use the roleplaying and statted rules as well.