Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[Umbra]

In regards to being able to read Dragon online...

I think having the current editions online could result in the death of the paper version and the people who don't use the web lose out.

However, I would think that people would be more likely to subscribe to Dragon if their subscription allowed them to browse old mags online (from 12 months ago and back perhaps). You could also get valuable data on what the browsers like or dislike or would like updated to 3.5 or want more of by having a voting system in place for individual articles.

Having forums to discuss particular articles may also generate interest, especially if authors could be involved. (One of the great things about ENWorld is having the authors/designers etc put their 2c in).

Perhaps you can get commentaries from authors of classic articles to revisit them in light of the new edition.

Quality web enhancements only available to subscribers may also help boost numbers. (I have no idea what the subscriber/shop purchaser numbers are like but I would assume that converting shop purchasers to subscribers would boost numbers somewhat as they would be buying every issue instead of any that catches there attention).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I repeated that mantra many times during the mutant Dungeon/Polyhedral days. I was told that the readership didn't want non-D&D content at all & would take up torches & pitchforks if it appeared. ))

I wonder, though, if this impression was based on sales or on the feedback of a vocal minority.

Based on declining subscriptions and the vocal majority.

 

[greymist]

My original post is a bunch of pages back, but I wanted to respond to Erik's post about fiction.

I don't mind reading the fiction in Dragon, frankly with some issues, it is a way to get away from the articles that I don't like. However, sticking to WOTC-themed fiction will be another nail in the coffin. As you said, WOTC publishes a dozen or two novels each year...if I want to read them I will. The fact of the matter is that I find the majority of the novels to be garbage. If you add it to Dungeon on a regular basis you will be driving me away faster.

In regards to your comment about being introduced to many authors by Dragon: so was I...but that was then.

IMO you are dealing with a much better educated buyer now. Not in terms of schooling, but in terms of knowing about all of the available products and all of the tie-ins, etc. Marketing in 2004 using 1974 as a model is simply a bad business decision.

I expect that the readers of EN World make a pretty good sample for the Dragon market, and from what I can see you should not even be thinking about it...drop the fiction (even though I will miss some of it) and provide more fluff. And if you think that this thread is not representative of your readers, then you sure as heck better be polling your subscribers directly to make sure.

I am looking forward to reading your editorial response, I hope you will post a lengthier version here, where your word count is not constrained.

And finally, I would like to add my voice to those who do not want to see any articles on D&D Miniatures, or computer games....stick to the knitting and write articles on roleplaying games.

 

[Snapdragyn]

The main reason that I shall soon not be buying Dragon magazine, is that Paizo seems unable to provide consistent delivery of it. I have been a subscriber for just over a year, & almost every month I have read the contents here (often for a week or more) before my issue arrives. I still have not received issue 326 & now I see that people are posting about 327!

I contacted customer service about this. Their response? It must be my post office. My reply to THAT comment I include here:

Greetings,

This is regarding a Dragon magazine subscription to:

<name & address>

I wrote recently that I have had a problem with issues being severely delayed. I still have not received issue 326; at this point I must conclude that it has been missed completely.

The answer to the previous correspondence was that I should check with my post office. I find it interesting that my post office can deliver my bills on time every month. My post office can deliver junk mail on time every month. My post office can deliver other magazine subscriptions on time every month. Somehow, though, they always manage to be late with my Dragon magazine. I never knew there were so many postal workers who played D&D & were hard up for reading material -- nor so good at rewrapping magazines after apparently holding on to them for a few weeks.

I regularly post at EN World, & I see other people posting about similar issues with their Dragon magazine accounts. I also regularly post on birdwatching related message boards; interestingly I have never seen a post about someone's issue of Birding, or Audubon, or any other birding-interest magazine being late.

It is said that only the truth is consistent. I think the consistent factor makes the truth here obvious -- Dragon magazine has poor standards of delivery. I am now on the verge of canceling my subscription; should it reach that point, I would not be so foolish as to buy shelf copies at higher price to continue supporting a business that proved unable to properly provide basic service to its dedicated customers.

Please let me know what steps are being taken to remedy this, or I shall cancel my subscription.

Content-wise, I've not been pleased with the change -- & I was in the 'wait & see' crowd who thought it sounded reasonable, not one who was already against it before it even happened. The single-page articles are too short to do enough, but one for each class eats up a sizable chunk of an issue. I miss the themed issues; I know that there were complaints about those (oh, nothing in this issue for me!) but I was fine with them because every 'eh' issue seemed to be balanced by an 'omg, EVERY article!' issue during the time I was regularly buying & then subscribing.

But just getting the magazine that I've already paid for -- yeah, that would be sort of nice.

 

[underthumb]

More historical perspectives and information

I loved the information in #326 about sewers and labyrinths. I want to see the hazy intersection between fantasy and real life. I want to see how things are (or were) done in the "real world" to understand how they might be done in fantasy. A recurring section with historical perspectives on just about any subject would make me a subscriber.

 

[Erik Mona]

Snapdragyn,

I am truly sorry to hear about your subscription delays. You have no idea how much it pains me to hear about stuff like that. As you might imagine, as an editor of two magazines I am an absolute control freak, and when things go wrong with an aspect of the business over which I have no control it just drives me through the roof.

However, as I mentioned in the post above, Paizo has recently taken steps to wrestle this delivery problem to the ground (all previous attempts having failed), and there are signs that the last issues of Dungeon and Dragon have arrived somewhat more swiftly than normal. I know of several posters who have received Dungeon #118, for instance, and I am pretty sure it is not yet available in the stores. Ditto #327, which wasn't on the local newsstands here in Seattle as late as yesterday.

The way the whole thing works is that the magazines are shipped directly from our printer to subscribers immediately after the magazines have been printed. A couple of days later, it goes to the game distributors. A couple of days later, it goes to Curtis Circulation, which handles magazine distribution for thousands of magazines (including, probably, most of the ones you read regularly). These are the people who fulfill newsstand orders. So all of this stuff is in the mail pretty much over the course of the same couple of weeks. Ideally first to subscribers and then to stores shortly thereafter.

But it's more complicated than that. The magazines are printed in the midwest, so subscribers from Wisconsin, Illinois, and thereabouts are most likely first to receive their magazines. Very possibly within 2-5 days of that magazine being created.

Often, a poster here on EN World shares the table of contents from his new Dragon a week or so before the office "test" subscription copies arrive in Seattle.

It takes the magazine a great deal less time to reach someone in the next county than it does to reach someone on the other side of the US. Or (as our beleagured foreign subscribers know) someone in another country altogether. Because some of us (myself included) are so addicted not only to D&D but to posting on Internet message boards, a few gamers love to be the first to post the table of contents or whatever for their new Dragon. These are often among the first people outside the printers to have ever seen the finished magazines, and the minute someone sees that post, their "why don't I have my issue yet" clock starts ticking. We get dozens of letters every month from people complaining that they don't have their issues yet before we get ours in the office. A couple days later, most of these people write us back and let us know that their magazines arrived "after all." Sometimes we in the office still haven't received our own copies yet.

None of that is meant to excuse poor or late delivery of the magazines. I just wanted to give you an idea of how the distribution of the magazines works (or, in some cases, doesn't work). Obviously, if people are writing in and complaining that the magazine is available in stores before they get their subscriber copy that's a problem. It's the kind of problem we always try hard to fix and avoid, and I'm thinking we're well on the way to getting it licked.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

 

[scourger]

late delivery of subscriptions

Erik,

On the issue of late delivery of subscription magazines, I have only had one recent problem. I waited a couple of weeks after I saw my magazine (Dungeon) on the shelf at my FLGS. I called Paizo customer service and promptly received an issue in the mail. Unfortunately (for Paizo but fortunately for me), I then also received my subscription copy. I feel guilty about having two copies (even though I will probably use the extra copy when I (hopefully) run the finale of the Shackled City), but it is a testament to your customer service department. What can I do to even it up with your company?

I also commend you for taking an active role in the evolution of these magazines. The online community is a small but vocal segment of the gaming community. If my circle of players is the barometer that I think it is, then the online presence is 20% or less of the gaming demographic. But, it is almost 100% of your committed customer base. I think it's awesome that you're getting feedback here, and thanks for letting me sound off about it.

 

[Theron]

The biggest single reason is that I don't have a D&D/D20 game going at present.

However, beyond that, things just went too far in the direction of crunch for my tastes. Patrick Y. put it very well back on the first page of the thread. It's too dry and the inspiration and fun just feels sucked out of it. Honestly, I doubt I'm Dragon's target audience: I'm not interested in scads of new prestige classes, I'm at least a year behind on new WoTC purchases, and I have yet to actually play 3.5. Ultimately, I missed an issue or two and realized I really hadn't missed out on anything I needed.

 

[The_Universe]

Snapdragyn,

I am truly sorry to hear about your subscription delays. You have no idea how much it pains me to hear about stuff like that. As you might imagine, as an editor of two magazines I am an absolute control freak, and when things go wrong with an aspect of the business over which I have no control it just drives me through the roof.

However, as I mentioned in the post above, Paizo has recently taken steps to wrestle this delivery problem to the ground (all previous attempts having failed), and there are signs that the last issues of Dungeon and Dragon have arrived somewhat more swiftly than normal. I know of several posters who have received Dungeon #118, for instance, and I am pretty sure it is not yet available in the stores. Ditto #327, which wasn't on the local newsstands here in Seattle as late as yesterday.

The way the whole thing works is that the magazines are shipped directly from our printer to subscribers immediately after the magazines have been printed. A couple of days later, it goes to the game distributors. A couple of days later, it goes to Curtis Circulation, which handles magazine distribution for thousands of magazines (including, probably, most of the ones you read regularly). These are the people who fulfill newsstand orders. So all of this stuff is in the mail pretty much over the course of the same couple of weeks. Ideally first to subscribers and then to stores shortly thereafter.

But it's more complicated than that. The magazines are printed in the midwest, so subscribers from Wisconsin, Illinois, and thereabouts are most likely first to receive their magazines. Very possibly within 2-5 days of that magazine being created.

Often, a poster here on EN World shares the table of contents from his new Dragon a week or so before the office "test" subscription copies arrive in Seattle.

It takes the magazine a great deal less time to reach someone in the next county than it does to reach someone on the other side of the US. Or (as our beleagured foreign subscribers know) someone in another country altogether. Because some of us (myself included) are so addicted not only to D&D but to posting on Internet message boards, a few gamers love to be the first to post the table of contents or whatever for their new Dragon. These are often among the first people outside the printers to have ever seen the finished magazines, and the minute someone sees that post, their "why don't I have my issue yet" clock starts ticking. We get dozens of letters every month from people complaining that they don't have their issues yet before we get ours in the office. A couple days later, most of these people write us back and let us know that their magazines arrived "after all." Sometimes we in the office still haven't received our own copies yet.

None of that is meant to excuse poor or late delivery of the magazines. I just wanted to give you an idea of how the distribution of the magazines works (or, in some cases, doesn't work). Obviously, if people are writing in and complaining that the magazine is available in stores before they get their subscriber copy that's a problem. It's the kind of problem we always try hard to fix and avoid, and I'm thinking we're well on the way to getting it licked.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

Erik,

I've had a few odd problems with late (or non-) arrivals, but in those few events, your customer service staff has always taken care of them quickly, and with the attitude one would expect.

In my VERY limited interactions with the people at Dragon and Dungeon, I have nothing but positive things to say, and though I miss certain things about past formats that have already been lamented here, I wish you guys the absolute best for both magazines!

Now if only I could hear back about my article submissions...

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I guess I need yet more understanding of subscription deliveries. I subscribe to several weekly magazines and recieve them no more than 2 days after press (content covering current events shows when it had to be printed). Obviously they are using a different distribution method since anything more than 2-3 days on delivery would put them out of buisness. This also shows that you can't place the blame on the US Postal system.