Why are elves inferior spellcasters./why gnomes are better.

[Moggthegob]

Do not get me wrong, I like elves, they definitely have a place in any fantasy world. I just wish to hell they made some sort of sense. I like the idea for favored class druid for them. I never thoguht of it before but it really is also a perfect fit. They were light armors, deal directly with the fey, and really stand to benefit from the use of longswords/rapiers and bows. That and duskblade really hearkens back to the old 2nd ed elves though that does not rectify the problem of thier contradictory nature.
They are a race that lives in the woods and practices very unnatural magic. Just plain wierd. Also, if you as a wizard are using up all of your spells protecting yourself( even assuming you cast the correct protections before battle or else you waste the entire battle buffing yourself) how many spells do you have left at that point? If so you are limiting your usefulness in battle especially at the lower levels, where a majority of plasyers, IME, spend thier time. Are you using scrolls? If so those costs add up. I would rather be able to naturally defend myself. Plus you have to realize that a gnome or dwarf wizard would have those same defenses on top of thier extra hitpoints.

 

[TerraDave]

Favoured Class: As noted, its makes it easier to multiclass. It has nothing to do with a single class focus. It is a nod to all of those multiclass elves (or elf as class) of previous editions. But then again, I don't really use the favoured class rules either.

Best Wizard: In past editions, they were from one race: humans. Only they could reach high levels. The big change with 3 ed, again as noted, is that now gnomes or dwarves (or maybe elves or another race) can be the greatest wizards.

Low Light Vision: You have got some humans in the party, and some light sources. In that case the elf can see farther then they can. If the DM bothers to remember (the distances are on the standard DM screen) it can come into play all the time. Its a nice perq and fits with the spot bonus elves get.

One last thing; Grey Elves. As presented in the core rules, they have an int bonus, and they may be the best wizards. But are not in the PHB.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I also agree with another post that says dwarves make good wizards. The +2 to Con helps immensely for those rare occassions when you can't avoid the hit-point abuse.

That's mainly because dwarves are good at most things, because they're overpowered.

Being able to spot secret doors and resist the fey doesn't equal wizards, either.

It doesn't equal not wizards, either.

Just as being good with stones doesn't equal fighter, but dwarves are still fighters. Or a bonus on attacks against kobolds doesn't mean bard (or illusionist), but gnomes still get it.

Racial abilities don't have to match the favoured class. In fact, if everything is tailored to one concept, it feels like they were just choices in a game.

A race with keen senses, the ability to resist the fey and that's natually good with the bow and the rapier sounds like many interesting things, but spellcasters, as a race, ain't it.

I don't see why not. There's more concepts for wizards than Speccy Harry Potter, you know.

Keen senses are good for every one. Some might get more out of it, but no one will be hindered by it.

And some martial training? Fits a race that takes 25 years to become mature by human standards, and about a hundred years to become mature by their own. They have time. They can try different things. Plus, elves often have a martial history, with more than their fair share of enemies. So knowing how to use that ancestral weapon that is in the family longer than the human race exists can't be bad, even for a wizard. When you fight a horde of orcs, it's not that unlikely that you run out of spells.

Being chaotic in alignment doesn't mean that the character in question has ADD or can't focus on a particular subject. Also, I would think that a race that lives for hundreds of years would be perfectly suited to "long" study.

Exactly.

I see that "chaotic equals completely mad and random" too often. People seem to insist that the traits that can be applied to the alignment have to be applied to the hilt. Chaotic characters that are slaves to their vim, lawful characters that have a whole broom cupboard up their backside and so on.

 

[Moggthegob]

Well keen senses arent bad ever, but that does not mean they do not begin to feel like a wasted feature by 3rd level and thoguh personal spot checks can be useful for things like suprise round, it just seems wasteful.

Regardless Throguh discussions on here it is clear to me that wizardry isnt thier problem, ADD is. they are everything and nothing. They love nature, they love un-nature. They're xenophobic, they are generally loved. There seems to be too many ideas about what an elf is and as a result thier curch and flavor cotnradict and make for a really odd race. Gnomes flavor matches thier cruch, same thing goes for every other core race. Why elves don't probablhy reflets that elves are probably split along the lines of grey and wood elves with no such thing as a high elf really existing.

However no one seems to understand what I am asking for, can someone help me come up with a race of scholarly elves, liek the grey elf, with certain abilities of the elf switched out in favor of a more scholarly race, as i feel the elf as written is the wood elf with strong connections to fey and nature and therefore more suited to limited dips and specialization in druid rather than wizard.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well keen senses arent bad ever, but that does not mean they do not begin to feel like a wasted feature by 3rd level and thoguh personal spot checks can be useful for things like suprise round, it just seems wasteful.

Why does have every racial trait have to be locked down on the favoured class? Why bother with keeping race and class separate? Go OD&D and and let people play "magic-user" or "thief" or "elf".

 

[Gez]

Hey, have you ever thought about swaping the elves and gnomes around? It makes so much sense it's frightening!

Elves are usually chaotic good. Their favored class is bard. They live in small communities and have a happy-go-lucky outlook on life. They're fond of pranks and practical jokes as long as they're harmless. Songs and arts in general are very important for them. In combat, they tend to blend swordfight and magic with dance.

Gnomes are usually neutral good. Their favored class is wizard. They are scholars in tune with nature, mastering many old magics forgotten by other races, which help them blend better in the woods and hiding their cities from marauders. In combat, they rely mostly on arcane or druidic magics.

Seriously, use gnomes as the token "elder race with more magic than the others" and elves as the merry wanderers that don't take themselves too seriously. It will be much, much better than the explosive tinkers and the stuffy fops we have with the old assignment.

 

[frankthedm]

Does that 20 hp lost over the carreer of a 20th level character really make that much difference?

It hasn't in my experience.

In my experience it has. Something fierce too. I've seen dying rather than dead with my high hp casters fairly often since most the DMs in the group don't hold back and generally roll in the open.

 

[Derren]

Thats exactly what I always thought. Most elven lore fits more the gnomes than elves and the other way around.

Replace elves with Gnomes (society and favored class). Or if you use Races of Dragon, spellscales also work rather well as elves (without the draconic flavor so replace the dragon gods with Seldarin)

 

[pawsplay]

I was doing some thinking with my gaming group the other night and we decided to look at games mechanics. Elves have faored class wizard but none of us can figure out why, from an in game perspective. All of thier abilities and racial traits lend themselves to being either rangers or rogues.

Other than, you know, Favored Class. From an in game perspective, they are often wizards from an out of game perspective. Which is to say, Favored Class is not the same as "class a munchkin would most likely associate with these abilities." It's the class the race favors, and includes intangibles that don't directly translate into ability or skill bonuses.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Other than, you know, Favored Class. From an in game perspective, they are often wizards from an out of game perspective. Which is to say, Favored Class is not the same as "class a munchkin would most likely associate with these abilities." It's the class the race favors, and includes intangibles that don't directly translate into ability or skill bonuses.

Wow, nice munchkin jab.

The favored class and all the other stats don't match up in the least, which you can't say about any of the other PHB races.

It's a worthwhile point to bring up. Half-orcs make great barbarians, dwarves are great fighters, halflings make great rogues. Elves make ... mediocre wizards. It's a little incongruous.