Kae'Yoss said:
And wizards are always in the thick of melee?
Wizards seem to survive despite the low HD, and for a reason: They're a lot better at avoiding losing HP than your average arrow-thrower. They have mirror images, invisibility, fly, and a dozen other little spells to make it work.
That assumes some fore-knowledge on the part of the PCs to know that a fight is coming and to cast the spells. 1rnd/lvl and 1 min/lvl spells will almost never be cast before a fight unless you know the fight is coming. In my experience, wizards (and sorcerers) survive by not advertising themselves as such initially. Obvious wizards and sorcerers get geeked by rogues and monks with improved initiative before they even act.
Kae'Yoss said:
Unless you cast your protection from energy.
Which again pre-supposes that the wizard knows to cast this ahead of time AND guesses which energy type to use (or spends 5 slots to cover them all).
Kae'Yoss said:
No. Completely wasted on a fighter. They already get proficiency with everything martial. Wizards get next to nothing, so they will not complain about free weapon proficiencies. Especially that bow can be useful at low levels.
True. They are wasted on a fighter, they are also however wasted on a wizard. Low str and low BAB and low attack rate means that bows are no better for a wizard than crossbows.
Kae'Yoss said:
Your characters never outside except in broad daylight? They never use torches or candles?
I agree with you. Low-light is a fine ability. In my experience, outdoor adventuring is quite common.
Kae'Yoss said:
Spot and listen are always useful.
True too, but unless you have ranks in these skills, +2 becomes irrelevant really fast and their fav-class doesn't get those skills in-class. At least the familiar gives you an additional +2 however, but that only postpones the inevitable.
Kae'Yoss said:
I can't agree with this:
Beyond the fact that grey elves / gold elves (one a subrace from the very core rules, the other from the biggest D&D world out there) get a bonus to int (not too many other races get an int bonus with any of their sub-races), the dex is quite useful for ranged-touch-spell slinging, lightly armoured wizards, and since wizards are quite good at avoiding HP loss, the con will not be quite that bad.
I agree that the grey and gold elves are decent races, the PHB elves however are rather poor.
Kae'Yoss said:
Well:
1) Dwarves are overpowered and should be cut down to size.
2) Appraise isn't necessarily something for wizards, they just cast a divination spell or two.
3) +2 Bonus against magic - good for everyone, and also see my 1)
1. That is subject to disagreement but it only proves the point that the PHB elf race is too weak in general.
2. I agree, appraise is nothing to write home about. However I am interested in knowing which wizard divination spell is that which will allow you to appraise something like a gemstone or a piece of artwork. There are none in the PHB that I can think of.
3. I think he is arguing that the dwarves' generic +2 vs. magic is better than the elves' immunity to sleep etc. and I think he is correct. It really just points out that dwarf racial benefits are in general better than elf benefits in nearly all cases. This is not just confined to wizards.
Kae'Yoss said:
So stuff like +2 to search, spot and listen, detect secret doors, immune to sleep and +2 to enchantment saves means that even with +2 Int (something your average wizard would sell his mother for), they are bad wizards? You just completely lost me.
Elves don't make bad wizards, they just aren't any better at wizarding than anyone else and this is their favored class. Elves do not gain any racial benefits that help their favored class in the slightest, but instead gain a stat deficit that is detrimental to EVERY class (Con).
Personally, I think racial stats should be as follows:
Dwarf: -2 Dex, +2 Con (stubby fingers and short limbs result in lower-than-average manual dexterity).
Elf: -2 str, +2 Dex, w/ fav class changed to Ranger. (Elves are rather small for medium creatures with corresponding lower muscle mass, they are however very agile. They favor Weapon Finesse and bow fighting. Elves are also very much more in tune with the natural enviornment than most races.) Elves have a racial +1 to hit with bows (long or short) and swords (long or short) (similar to what halflings get with slings and thrown weapons).
Half-Orc: +2 Str, -2 Wis (They are strong and headstrong and short on forethought).
This makes sure that everyone gets stats and penalties that match the fantasy stereotype but are not massively detrimental to game play. This also prevents any race getting a penalized stat that is easily dumped (Cha for example).
Tzarevitch
