Why are orcs evil?

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

In my game most humanoid races are neutral, Orcs hace evil tendencies because of their culture and society, but human barbarians can be just as evil. Oh, and if it wasn`t for the orcs, my players wouldn`t be able to form the coalition that stopped The Nilfgaard Empire, which was LN with racist( anti non-humans) LE goverment.

 

[Darraketh]

I think evil is subjective. Basically someone has to say, "I don't like that." Ex; I don't like the way my neighbor acts since he started playing that game and I don't trust him around my chickens.

They then have to reach a consensus with a majority on the subject. Ex; The rest of my neighbors don't like it either and they're locking up their daughters at night because of him.

Next they apply the common identifier. "He's evil!" "He's doing something we don't like." "He's obviously consorting with <insert name of favorite mythological being that makes people do what we don't like>.

In several cultures human sacrifice was perfectly acceptable and required by the gods. So is it evil or not? I guess it really depends on which end of the knife you are on.

As for the orcs... well they have been know to commit a whole range of acts that the majority of humans don't like. Obviously they are under the influence of <insert name of favorite mythological being that makes orcs do what we don't like>.

 

[Bagpuss]

Orc are evil so it gives the players something to kill without feeling guilty and they can in fact feel good about it.

 

[Rhialto]

And Jack the Ripper? Well, he didn't think he was evil! So he must not be! Easy as that!

Subjective, my... foot...

 

[Henry]

Re: IMC...

Consider. You are born into a society where as a child, you are ignored (if you're lucky), neglected &/or abused nearly every day of your life.

The clerics of your tribe, (who Gruumsh grants powerful magic in return for promoting an attitude of racial aggression, etc). teach you that your race has been cheated of its birthright to rule the world (a common orcish dogma).

The only members of you see given any respect are those reputed to have the greatest battle honors. Those that have slaughtered the most (dangerous) opponents & claimed the most loot....

(SNIP)

Thats why orcs are evil IMC.

Sounds like some of the kids I see enrolled in community outreach programs. I'm not kidding.

Some of those kids are taught from early on, unintentionally, to "do unto others, before they can do it unto you." As sad as it is, when they attain adulthood in a society where compassion and giving are weaknesses, there is often little hope for changing their standards and raising their expectations out of life, and all you are left with is cleaning up the mess of a wasted life.



Fortunately, in fantasy you do not have to worry about WHERE your opposition gets its values, so much as HOW to stop them from squashing you flat.


It's a good question of "nature or nurture" in campaigns - which do DM's allow for monsters? I prefer the "nurture" path myself, which allows for redemption. OTOH, I do not worry paladins too much with details of what to do with the prisoners when stranded far from civilization, and very few alternatives available to them. It is IMC very very difficult to change a being's stripes after they pass a certain point, but it can occasionally be done.

In previous campaigns, my players' characters have converted hobgoblins to Good, have converted a whole tribe of formerly-enslaved Cyclopskin as a joke to worshipping a goddess of peace and love named Vaprak (Vaprak was still ticked off about that one), and one player eve had a Robinson Crusoe/Friday relationship with a converted hobgoblin before! (He was the PC's "shield-man.") It's made for some fascinating moments in the campaign, and has left more indelible marks behind than not.

 

[Master of Monkeys]

Its all about Beholders

I play it that evil is from the character's point of view. I am sure orcs don't consider themselves evil, just the elves and humans who attack them and raid against them. If I were to play a campaign in orc culture I think we would be good and they would be evil.

That and their race name starts with 'O'.

 

[KDLadage]

And Jack the Ripper? Well, he didn't think he was evil! So he must not be! Easy as that!

Subjective, my... foot...

Although I personally agree with you for the most part (I do believe that there are some absolutes in evil and good) there is a subjective element the the concept of good and evil.

However, you seem to have misinterpreted it somewhat (on purpose? not sure). It is not the case, in the subjective view of morality, that the individual defines evil -- it is the community, the society in which s/he lives that will define it. The vast majority of Englanders in Jack's day saw him as evil. Thus he is evil, no matter what he, or a minority of people may have thought.

For example, let us look at the American Revolution. Here we see (im America) the people involved are held high as heroic men. I happen to see it that way. Even though many of these men did things that, today, would be seen as evil. They owned slaves, for example. They (as it was stated in DAZED AND CONFUSED) -- "were a group of rich white slave owners that didn't want to pay their taxes" and so they overthrew a government. One man, Benadict Arnold, is a "traitor" and reviled in American history.

Now, lets look at a world where the Revolution was thwarted. Suddenly, these men are nolonger "patriotic men of honor and priciple" -- they are "murderous criminals that were subverting the God given right to Rule granted to King George." They go from being Good to either (at best) Chaotic Neutral (opportunists) or (at worst) Chaotic Evil (murderous thieves).

the view of these men is highly subjective to the outcome of History.

Another broad (and sometimes over used) example is Nazi Germany (I know, I know, but here me out). Currently, in the world that has followed World War II, after the demise of the Nazi War machine, the vast majority of the world (myself whole-heartedly included) sees the reign of Hitler to have been an evil one. They see the acts and the results and the beliefs of this group to be "evil" -- thus, it is evil. In fact, it has pretty much defined the idea for a couple of generations.

Now, imagine a world in which the Third Reich had conquered Europe. Imagine a world where Hitler is revered, not reviled. Imagine a world where the Nazi Party is celebrated as the harbringers of a New World Order, not the vile racist we see them as. Imagine a world where the paradigm of the Nazi Party had become the default meme of the Western World. In this world, Nazism and the Third Reich and even the Holocaust are no longer the dispicable acts of evil men, they are the liberating acts of a group of patriots.

Now, before you get upset, understand that this is not entirely the way I see things. I feel that there are some absolutes involved here. But, one must accept that history is written by the Victors, and they will always paint thier cause as the "just" and "correct" one.

 

[uv23]

Because orcs are ugly. And ugly things are easy to hate and label as evil. Orcs, goblins, trolls, .. none of them are going to be submitting entrants to "Miss Montrous 2002" any time soon.

 

[Desdichado]

This is part of why I don't like alignment. I've tended to either seriously downplay it, or do away with it entirely in games I've DMed.

 

[Quickbeam]

Orcs are evil because...

I recall a very famous Monte Cook adventure wherein one particular orc had a pie, and this pie was not being shared with others. That's certainly not nice and might be construed as evil, so therefore orcs are evil. Simple .