Why are people so uncomfortable with PvP?

DonTadow said:
I've known players to think that going in other people's items is always them "exploring" their character. I guess in that case it depends on how well you know your players and if you believe they can be honest and fair when they decide pvpt.

I have a pretty good group. "It's what my character would do," is a perfectly good reason to do something for us, because nobody is going to abuse it. There was one possible exception who skirted the line, but he's no longer a member of the group.

I admit, this might be uncommon. Ironically, I've found that those who have previous roleplaying experience before my game are more problematic in this regard. Those who I've taught roleplaying are less likely to try and abuse the game.
 

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I have no problem provided that it is in character and the players can seperate in character actions from out of play. However, I would evaluate the circumstances carefully to see if there was a trend among certain players.

In the one campaign i was in, the party had tracked down a "demon" that had been stealing animals and killed a man. We found the "demon" , whom turned out to be a lion-person from another world posessing some advanced technology.
The party comprised of a halfling barbarian, a ranger, an archmage, a my monk and my rogue eventually tracked down the lion person. Upon tracking down the creature, the halfling, ranger and my rogue approached peacefuly to try to establish communication.

The lion-person would not let the rogue, ranger, and halfling approach to closely, but close enough that a conversation could take place. He told them that he stole the creatures for food and that he had killed the man in self defense. He would have asked for help from the beginning, but people reacted negatively. When the rogue, ranger and halfling offered to help him, the lion person allowed them to come closer. At five feet away, he asked them to drop their weapons and lie down. Sensing the lion man was trying to test our intentions and establish trust, we obliged, but only after telling the rest of the party not to attack.

Sure enough as the lion person knelt over our characters with his weapon drawn, the archmage attacked and the monk joined him. As the ranger stood there watching dumfounded (he was new to the party and had no idea whom to support). the halfling and my rogue tried to get in the middle and get both parties to stop firing. When the lion man fell to the ground, the halfling tried layed across him to shield the body. The archmage still kept firing away with spells even though the GM warned him that he might hit the halfling. Meanwhile, the Rogue was busy trying to keep the Monk from pulling the halfling from the lion man's .

The Lion man eventually died and the party was fragmented. The halfling and rogue wanted to nothing to do with the psychotic archmage (the player's character are always blood thirsty and power hungry, but the GM had always "tolerated" him) or the monk. The Rogue and the halfling buried the Lion Man. Then they left telling the archmage and monk not to follow, because it was taking all their restraint not to kill them on the spot. As for the Ranger, they accepted his explanation that he did not know the party that well and was ,therefore, unsure whose side to take and told him that he could along if he wished.

Eventually, the Ranger caught up to the Rogue and Halfling.

Now as for the GM, he was very upset with the player of the archmage and to a lesser extent the player of the monk. When told by myself that the player of the Halfling that our characters would never be willing to adventure with the Archmage again and would have to think hard before teaming up with the monk, the GM told the players of those characters that their characters were now NPCs. He felt that neither character had been heroic, and the archmage was downright evil. Given the choice he would rather DM the campaign using the Rogue and halfling.

After the game, the GM decided to kick the archmage's player out of the group, The DM had warned the player several times of his playing style. However the player of the Monk was allowed to stay (he just had to make up a new character)

The archmage ended up becoming the major enemy of the campaign and the the Monk was his top commander.
 

PC v PC conflict, even deadly, can certainly be entertaining and appropriate to the characters and situations brought to the table. The problem is when it's more PvP than PC v PC and that depends on the attitude of the players.
I have cracked down on inter-player conflict and told players that if they have a personal conflict it has to stay away from the game. I don't crack down on PC v PC conflict when it's not causing inter-player problems. I let them play it out in the game and sometimes that can be a lot of fun as long as it's not seriously disrupting someone else's fun (but that goes for EVERYTHING in gaming whether it's conflict, romance, excessive DM-hogging, or whatnot).

So, while can understand that PC v PC conflict is something that some people can't handle, if handled well by mature players, I have no problems with it.
Of course, we've been playing for over 10 years with campaigns that frequently have at least one PC working cross-purpuses to the other PCs for some reason or another, usually in very secretive ways. It's usually part of the fun to ferret out who it is.
 

ThirdWizard said:
However, if you define PvP as problematic PC infighting, then yes, PvP is problematic.
actually, I said antagonistic, not problematic. Frankly, the acronym says it all - Player vs player. Not any time PCs are rolling dice against each other, but when the players are acting against each other's goals and interests. Now players acting against each other may not be problematic to some groups, but it is to me. But no, I didn't define PvP as problematic.
 

Kahuna Burger said:
actually, I said antagonistic, not problematic. Frankly, the acronym says it all - Player vs player. Not any time PCs are rolling dice against each other, but when the players are acting against each other's goals and interests. Now players acting against each other may not be problematic to some groups, but it is to me. But no, I didn't define PvP as problematic.

Players acting against each others goals and interests is perfectly provide if it is in character. I have actually had one character (basically paladin/monk) go against the party's short term goals because it was in character. Everyone at the table was fine with it and I was prepared to have PC go into NPC status or be removed from game if GM couldn't work my character back into party. Thankfully, he had the perfect plan to do so.
 

Crothian said:
So, you don't role play the character, that's cool. Not everyone likes to role play their characters which is pretending to be that character.
That's a hugely inaccurate definition of role-playing. Suffice to say that this opinion is exactly why I always comment in these threads; pretending to be your character is not the be-all and end-all of role-playing.
 

Crothian said:
The other person said he doesn't pretend to be the character, and role playing is pretending to be the character.
No, it isn't. Role-playing games involve players controlling the actions of player characters in reaction to events and setting elements that are usually presented by a GM.

The fact that many people choose to "role-play" by pretending to be the character doesn't make it a universal fact.

Hell, one of the most immersive players I know doesn't always stick to in-character dialogue; even in intense one-on-one in-character discussions he'll narrate his character's physical reactions and movements to express the truth of his character's experience rather than try to act it all out himself.
 

Crothian said:
No, RPGs especially D&D can be run as a War game.
The fact that you seem to think people who don't pretend to be their characters must be playing D&D as a war game is an example of exactly the kind of false dichotomy I like to illuminate.
 

mhacdebhandia said:
That's a hugely inaccurate definition of role-playing. Suffice to say that this opinion is exactly why I always comment in these threads; pretending to be your character is not the be-all and end-all of role-playing.

really, so role playing isn't playing the role of a character which is pretending to be that character? I don't know what you mean by the be all end al either. So, please enlighten me on what role playing is.
 

mhacdebhandia said:
The fact that you seem to think people who don't pretend to be their characters must be playing D&D as a war game is an example of exactly the kind of false dichotomy I like to illuminate.

Ummm, there is role playing and then there is war gaming. There really isn't a third choice here that I know of.
 

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