D&D (2024) Why are weapon masteries limited?

[Sword of Spirit]

Given that you can change at least one of your weapon masteries each long rest, why do you even need to pick them? A character is only likely to want to use a weapon they lack mastery in if they happen to find a really cool magic weapon. And if it's not significantly better than what you are using, you are probably better off waiting until you've switched your mastery. The other scenarios are the equally rare situation where you have been unarmed and have to use what you find, or the even rarer one where there is a significant contextual benefit to using a specific available weapon other than the one you focus on.

So basically, the way it's set up, it doesn't define your character's style (since it can be easily changed), it just discourages you from doing cool things when they come up.

Seems like the system would be better (and save word count) if barbarian, fighter, paladin, ranger, rogues just got this feature instead:

Weapon Mastery
If you have proficiency in a weapon you can use its mastery property when you wield it.

(Edit: To clarify I'm not addressing masteries being tied to certain weapons--I'm accepting that as a given. I'm questioning the merit of characters having to choose which weapons they can use with mastery, rather than just getting to use every weapon with its appropriate mastery. I've updated the wording above to clarify.)

 

[Horwath]

that is maybe too much.

But I would treat them as maneuvers,

you know a number of them, and you can apply them to all weapons in the category:

Nick: can apply to all light weapons
Vex: can apply to all finesse and ranged weapons
Graze: can apply to all melee 2Handed and Versatile weapons
Cleave: can apply to all melee slashing weapons
Push: can apply to all heavy weapons
Slow: can apply to all weapons
Topple: can apply to all melee heavy weapons
sap: can apply to all melee blunt weapons

 

[GMMichael]

Given that you can change at least one of your weapon masteries each long rest, why do you even need to pick them?

Psh. What, you think a weapon master can just do what he knows? Without taking 8 hours to call upon his thousands of hours of training, and promptly forgetting thousands of hours with another weapon he's mastered?

Seems like the system would be better (and save word count) if all the relevant classes just got this feature instead:

Weapon Mastery
You can use the mastery properties of any weapon with which you are proficient.

This solution prevents the fighter from having a cool table column that makes it look like she improves as she gains levels.

So, I guess a better answer to the first question is that WotC didn't have a good way to hand out mastery properties, and felt like the game needed a hair more 4th ed. flair.

 

[Minigiant]

1) Because the point was to make weapons with the same damage die and base property feel different.

Battleaxe, Longsword*, Warhammer, and Warpick were all 1d8 versatile (1d10) weapons in 2014. To make them different but still be backwards compatible, they kept that and gave each a different* mastery.

2) As seen in 2014, DM controlled which weapons dropped. So masteries had to be switchable to not force DM to drop weapons based on the martial's choice.

*Originally longsword had another mastery which was scrapped.

 

[Pauln6]

Personally, I thought masteries should only have been applied to rangers and fighters because Barbarians, Rogues, and Paladins didn't really need more combat versatility to make them effective. Ladling it onto every martial class just complicates every round of combat quite considerably. Even placing limitations on two-weapon fighting so that nick is limited to fighter-rogues or rogues with a feat would not have been terrible, since the default rules would just set up competition for the rogue's bonus action as per 2014. Is there any advantage to playing a single-classed, single weapon rogue any more? That's a very common trope that should also be preserved IMO.

 

[cbwjm]

I've been thinking the same thing. If I ever run 5.5, I'll be giving weapon masters all of the masteries.

 

[mellored]

To make the weapons feel different.

But it isn't a big deal if you want to allow push with a longsword and vex with a warhammer.

Personal preference.

 

[OB1]

This thread made me think of a related question. You choose a specific weapon, not the property to know, right? So you choose Dagger (Nick) but that doesn't mean you can also use a Light Hammer (which also has Nick) unless you swap it out on a long rest, right? I can't find anything that specifically says one way or another.

At any rate, I'll probably rule in my games that you select a Mastery type, rather than a specific weapon, regardless of the intent.

 

[I'm A Banana]

This thread made me think of a related question. You choose a specific weapon, not the property to know, right? So you choose Dagger (Nick) but that doesn't mean you can also use a Light Hammer (which also has Nick) unless you swap it out on a long rest, right? I can't find anything that specifically says one way or another.

At any rate, I'll probably rule in my games that you select a Mastery type, rather than a specific weapon, regardless of the intent.

Yeah, I think you've got it right.

I think the reason for picking them during your rest is to emphasize your own strategic load-out. If I pick three masteries, I'm going to pick the three weapons I've got the biggest chance of using, so I'm thinking about balancing that choice - making sure I've got a ranged and a melee option, maybe making sure I've got all three weapon damage types covered, maybe I pick something two-handed and something one-handed to make sure I can swap in a shield if I need to. Limiting it adds to the planning.

It also limits the impact on new players, who only need to worry about the masteries of the weapons they want to use, and not worry about optimizing their choice across all possible weapon masteries. If I don't have a Pike or a Maul, I don't need to worry about what those weapons can do.

And, as mentioned, tying a mastery to a specific weapon helps add to that weapon's character.

It also becomes useful to add some character to various options. Working on some homebrew stuff, and I had a feat that allowed someone who took it to swap out a mastery on a weapon for Graze for an attack, essentially giving people with that feat Graze on every weapon. Adds some unique character to those who take that feat.

It wouldn't be game breaking if you just let everyone pick from all masteries for all weapons, but it would reduce the number of interesting choices, I think.

 

[FrogReaver]

This thread made me think of a related question. You choose a specific weapon, not the property to know, right? So you choose Dagger (Nick) but that doesn't mean you can also use a Light Hammer (which also has Nick) unless you swap it out on a long rest, right? I can't find anything that specifically says one way or another.

At any rate, I'll probably rule in my games that you select a Mastery type, rather than a specific weapon, regardless of the intent.

I don’t think that’s right. You pick a mastery.