Monks suffer horribly from being a "throw back class" to 1e, and the 1e monk wasn't based on actual martial arts or shaolin or wushu or any actual fighting style, but terrible 70's "Kung Fu" movies and TV shows.
D&D 3E/3.5 Why be a 3.5 monk?
- Thread starter Summer-Knight925
- Start date
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Let me clarify - the suffering doesn't come from being a throwback class, it comes from being created from the 1e monk. Thus you get the weirdness of Quivering Palm and no understanding of how to use even the most common of martial arts weapons, the spear.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
If I were to try and fix the monk, I would do all of these things, and probably some more:
-Full BAB. For the longest time I wanted monk to work as 3/4 BAB, I liked the idea of the class attacking a lot and having a lower to hit. But in practice it just doesn't work, and monk doesn't get that many attacks anyway, even with Greater Flurry and the Snap Kick feat. PF tried to fix the problem without truly making them full BAB (by only granting it while flurrying) but that IMHO turned out ugly and messy and underpowered still. Even just on a trial basis to see if giving full BAB somehow makes monk "too good" *chuckles*, just...give the poor guy full BAB. Rangers and Paladins get full BAB and spells! And no one even considers them to be good classes!
-At some point, let monk replace Str with Wis for Unarmed attack rolls, and disarm and trip checks. Then after that, let monks do the swap for unarmed damage, bull rush, overrun, and grapple. Reduce MAD by making str unimportant after a while. I think levels 3 and 5 are good. Someone that's willing to go 5 levels deep into monk to do melee with wis instead of str doesn't bother me, dip-balancing-wise.
-Abolish the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Explicitly state the monk can enhance his entire body (or have someone else enhance it) as if it were a manufactured weapon, at the same prices everyone else pays. Monk/Kensai's been able to do this for years now and the sky hasn't fallen.
-I have it at level 7 right now, but at some point, let monk string his extra flurry attacks to any attack action he bloody well pleases, to help marry flurry with his mobility.
-Make wholeness of body not suck. Not to help the monk be more powerful, just because...it's so bad it annoys me. Make it Monk level * Wis mod and give an option at some point to use it as an immediate action like Close Wounds.
-Make Abundant Step work once/encounter (or once every 5 minutes out of combat).
Just some ideas.
-Full BAB. For the longest time I wanted monk to work as 3/4 BAB, I liked the idea of the class attacking a lot and having a lower to hit. But in practice it just doesn't work, and monk doesn't get that many attacks anyway, even with Greater Flurry and the Snap Kick feat. PF tried to fix the problem without truly making them full BAB (by only granting it while flurrying) but that IMHO turned out ugly and messy and underpowered still. Even just on a trial basis to see if giving full BAB somehow makes monk "too good" *chuckles*, just...give the poor guy full BAB. Rangers and Paladins get full BAB and spells! And no one even considers them to be good classes!
-At some point, let monk replace Str with Wis for Unarmed attack rolls, and disarm and trip checks. Then after that, let monks do the swap for unarmed damage, bull rush, overrun, and grapple. Reduce MAD by making str unimportant after a while. I think levels 3 and 5 are good. Someone that's willing to go 5 levels deep into monk to do melee with wis instead of str doesn't bother me, dip-balancing-wise.
-Abolish the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Explicitly state the monk can enhance his entire body (or have someone else enhance it) as if it were a manufactured weapon, at the same prices everyone else pays. Monk/Kensai's been able to do this for years now and the sky hasn't fallen.
-I have it at level 7 right now, but at some point, let monk string his extra flurry attacks to any attack action he bloody well pleases, to help marry flurry with his mobility.
-Make wholeness of body not suck. Not to help the monk be more powerful, just because...it's so bad it annoys me. Make it Monk level * Wis mod and give an option at some point to use it as an immediate action like Close Wounds.
-Make Abundant Step work once/encounter (or once every 5 minutes out of combat).
Just some ideas.
The OP is already talking about multiclassing. The Monk is already lvl 12 and is looking for where to go from there. Psychic Warrior or Ranger would give proficiency with Guisarme and Cleric may or may not grant a reach/trip weapon but at a minimum word give use of the Long Spear.
I think your overestimating the need to be able to flurry with your reach weapon. The reach weapon is there to increase the area the monk threatens and grant attacks of opp as well as provide battlefield control. You still want to flurry with your unarmed strike since the damage has the potential to be so much greater. I like to trip with my reach weapon when my enemy provokes and then 5ft step and flurry stomps on their face while they are prone.
I remember reading somewhere Monte Cook said something along the lines that that was what some of 3Ed's design team meant with the "natural & manufactured" language in the Monk's class entry (and thus, RAI or "within the spirit")...which is why he made it EXPLICIT in his AU/AE game with the feat, Hands as Weapons.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Yup, I love that feat. I adopted it into my houserules as "Human Weapon," both in honor of a great tv show and because a monk can use more than just hands as weapons. But more recently I've come to the conclusion that it shouldn't even be a feat, it should just be the rule. It would be awesome if somewhere on the internet there is such a quote from Monte Cook to present to a DM and tell him it is indeed RAI.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
That's actually the exact opposite of what I was hoping for...
Odhanan
Adventurer
Because you like monks? Because you have a character concept that fits a monk best? Because you want to play a different character from what you've played before? Etc etc etc etc.
The game is not the rules. The rules are not the game.
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