Why can't crossbows be mighty?
- Thread starter Krug
- Start date
Aeric
Explorer
It seems to me that a heavy crossbow is essentially a mighty light crossbow +2, only without the masterwork bonus to hit and increasing the damage die instead of giving a straight bonus to damage. It weighs more mainly because of the winch mechanism and the range is better because of the stronger pull (the bow itself isn't any bigger)...although with that reasoning, mighty bows should increase their range incrementally as well....
You could simply eliminate the heavy crossbow and allow mighty (light) crossbows to take its place. The winch mechanism could be an option for those who don't meet the strength requirements to draw the bow by hand, allowing more damage at a slower rate of fire. Heck, even if you keep heavy crossbows as a specific weapon, I can see no reason why someone with a high enough Str bonus (+2 or higher) couldn't draw a heavy crossbow by hand, dropping the reload time to a move action instead of a full round action.
You could simply eliminate the heavy crossbow and allow mighty (light) crossbows to take its place. The winch mechanism could be an option for those who don't meet the strength requirements to draw the bow by hand, allowing more damage at a slower rate of fire. Heck, even if you keep heavy crossbows as a specific weapon, I can see no reason why someone with a high enough Str bonus (+2 or higher) couldn't draw a heavy crossbow by hand, dropping the reload time to a move action instead of a full round action.
Thanee
First Post
Krug said:
Yep, crossbows really should work a little different, i.e. have a Str rating required to load them and an appropriate damage rating.
They do have a damage rating one step up from the equivalent bow, but against a mighty bow, they do look pretty bad, really.
Most simple thing would be to just allow them to be mighty, but replace the attack penalty with extra time to load the weapon (+1 full round for every Str modifier below the crossbow's 'strength', cannot load a crossbow, which has a 'strength' more than 4 (?) points higher than your own Str modifier).
Bye
Thanee
Bayonet_Chris
First Post
Crossbows
In my game crossbows have an inherent mechanical strength bonus.
Hand crossbows give a +1 to damage (ST 12)
Light crossbows give a +2 to damage (ST 14)
Heavy crossbows give a +4 to damage (ST 18)
Of course, to load them without a winch (movement action), you need the appropriate strength to match. Otherwise it's a full round action to load.
In my game crossbows have an inherent mechanical strength bonus.
Hand crossbows give a +1 to damage (ST 12)
Light crossbows give a +2 to damage (ST 14)
Heavy crossbows give a +4 to damage (ST 18)
Of course, to load them without a winch (movement action), you need the appropriate strength to match. Otherwise it's a full round action to load.
Darmanicus
I'm Ray...of Enfeeblement
I've found mighty bows a bit strange because no matter what your strength is your arms are only so long therefore you can only pull it so far thus there should be some limit on a normal sized longbow.
Anyway, with re to the x-bow, all you do is upgrade the prod poundage and hey presto, problem solved, you now have a mighty crossbow. I'd even go as far to say that since a x-bow uses a winch mechanism then a characters strength shouldn't be a factor at all. This would somewhat balance bows and x-bows somewhat.....if you feel the need to balance them at all.
Anyway, with re to the x-bow, all you do is upgrade the prod poundage and hey presto, problem solved, you now have a mighty crossbow. I'd even go as far to say that since a x-bow uses a winch mechanism then a characters strength shouldn't be a factor at all. This would somewhat balance bows and x-bows somewhat.....if you feel the need to balance them at all.
dvvega
Explorer
Actually on a mighty bow, it isn't the distance your pull it, but the actually strength required to pull it. Assume all bows pull the same maximum distance, but the string requires certain strength to pull it to that maximum distance.
So a bow with a STR+4 pull can reach maximum pull with STR+4 or greater, but a STR+2 can only pull it so far and thus damage is reduced.
Personally I would also reduce the distance the arrow can travel but that's another story.
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In regards to crossbows and "mighty-ness", the reason strength does not play an issue is that a crossbow is winched back. The heavier the pull (mighter in other words), the bigger the pulley for the winch, and the longer the time to load it. Any person can winch the thing up, their strength has nothing to do with winching unless the pulley ratio was quite small.
Strength may be a factor in speed of loading, and thus a "mighty" crossbow would have load times dependent on strength, however its damage would be fixed.
One alternative system would grant crossbows equivalent DR due to the nature of its design. The bigger and mightier the crossbow, the more DR it can overcome. Or perhaps it can ignore certain amounts of AC from armour. Perhaps 1 point per +2 strength.
D
poilbrun
Explorer
Just look at Odysseus (Ulysses, don't know which one is used in English, as I read it in French) in Homer's Odissey, when he comes back to the feast with Penelope's suitors, he is the only one able to put the string on his bow, none of the suitors are strong enough to do it.Darmanicus said:
Felnar
First Post
The energy stored in a bow (or spring, etc) is based on its stiffness and the amount it is distorted from its resting state. Its called Hooke's Law. So to store more force, you either pull the bow further back (increase distortion) or make it out of a stiffer material (increase stiffness)
As has been noted before, if you are wondering about why X sucks with crossbows vs bows, it's because X sucks with crossbows vs bows.
In all seriousness, bows are quite literally better than crossbows in essentially every regards except one. Bows require an expert to be used well, but also give greater rewards in terms of capability as a result. Crossbows are pretty simple to operate and use, that's basically it for the advantages it has. That's why wizards can use a crossbow and not a composite long bow. It's why you get characters who are essentially combat experts using bows.
A bow if used by a skilled archer was better than any guns available until as late as the 18th century. They were more accurate, had a far higher rate of fire and a longer usable range. But you had to train a bowman from childhood to achieve an equivalent effectiveness that you could get out of a few weeks of training with a crossbow or blackpowder gun. Its that difference in training required that was what killed off the bow as a weapon of war and why crossbows were used before guns.
In all seriousness, bows are quite literally better than crossbows in essentially every regards except one. Bows require an expert to be used well, but also give greater rewards in terms of capability as a result. Crossbows are pretty simple to operate and use, that's basically it for the advantages it has. That's why wizards can use a crossbow and not a composite long bow. It's why you get characters who are essentially combat experts using bows.
A bow if used by a skilled archer was better than any guns available until as late as the 18th century. They were more accurate, had a far higher rate of fire and a longer usable range. But you had to train a bowman from childhood to achieve an equivalent effectiveness that you could get out of a few weeks of training with a crossbow or blackpowder gun. Its that difference in training required that was what killed off the bow as a weapon of war and why crossbows were used before guns.
