why cant I sneak attack with a longbow?
- Thread starter wujenta
- Start date
I don't mind the rogue not getting the longbow straight out because of the flavor and damage, but I do think a feat should exist for the rogue that wants a longbow.
Precision Archery [Rogue]
Prereq: Proficiency with longbow and shortbow.
Benefit: You can use the longbow or the shortbow with all rogue powers, and can gain the benefits of sneak attack when using these weapons.
There, quick clean and easy. Those who want longbows can use them, they just have to pay for the privilege of using a better weapon.
Precision Archery [Rogue]
Prereq: Proficiency with longbow and shortbow.
Benefit: You can use the longbow or the shortbow with all rogue powers, and can gain the benefits of sneak attack when using these weapons.
There, quick clean and easy. Those who want longbows can use them, they just have to pay for the privilege of using a better weapon.
JohnSnow
Hero
Spatula said:
Like, very likely, adding the restriction:
"You must be wielding a light blade"
to the descriptions of both the Sneak Attack class feature and all the rogue powers. Now, they could have just restricted it to weapons with which the rogue is proficient, but maybe they wanted that 2H axe guy to have to work a bit to be able to sneak attack with it.
One extra feat beyond weapon proficiency isn't that high a price to pay. And that cost does go a long way towards enforcing the "theme" of the rogue's weaponry. Those who really want it can take it. Those who don't...
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Spatula said:
That was a later comment, actually, though I do now recall it.
Still, no-one has in any way demonstrated that requiring a single Heroic-tier feat for this would be in any way unbalanced, have they?
Ktulu
First Post
I'm perfectly happy with the restrictions on the rogue. It's fair. Remember, the rogue now has some of the best to-hit chances in the game (dex to attack + damage, +4 using a dagger, can attack reflex with some powers, often using combat advantage, etc...) to keep the game fair, the rogue can't use a bow to sneak attack. If he could, he gets to do another die damage more than the ranger's similar ability, meaning the ranger is nerf'd by comparison.
If you want to be an archer, be a ranger. If you want to be a sneaky backstabbing assassin/thief, play a rogue. Don't mix my peanutbutter & chocolate.
Ktulu
If you want to be an archer, be a ranger. If you want to be a sneaky backstabbing assassin/thief, play a rogue. Don't mix my peanutbutter & chocolate.
Ktulu
Ruin Explorer
Legend
Ktulu said:
Way to invalidate your entire post, bro.
JohnSnow
Hero
Ruin Explorer said:
That's because it's probably NOT unbalanced. It certainly isn't with a shortbow. Spending 1 feat to get +1 average damage is a fair tradeoff - it's about as powerful as Weapon Focus or Weapon Proficiency (Rapier).
For the longbow, because it's a d10 weapon, it's a bit dicier. Two feats would certainly be fair, or maybe one with a prerequisite. On further reflection, I recant my earlier comment. The fact that rogues don't get bow proficiency is largely voided by the fact that all elves do, which is NOT the case with the rapier. No matter what race you are, getting that d8 weapon costs your rogue a feat. Allowing a feat to use a shortbow is EXACTLY the same.
But for the longbow, that's probably not enough. What's a good prerequisite feat? I don't know. On the other hand, shortbows are more compact and "rogue-y," so maybe the bow lovers would be content with a shortbow using rogue. It also keeps the longbow a ranger thing.
It may still, depending on your personal sensibilities and preferences, be thematically bad, as it does allow the rogue to tread on the ranger's toes a bit.
So, on further reflection, I think it's not unbalanced to create a feat that allows a rogue to sneak attack and use his powers with a shortbow. But with a longbow, I think it's a hard sell, both thematically and balance-wise.
My (slightly more than) two cents.
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A single feat like, "you can sneak attack with anything"? Yes that would be unbalanced. Sneak attack weapons are all +3 hit d6 melee/point-blank range, +4 hit d4 melee/PB range, or +2 hit d6 short ranged. You can currently spend a feat for +3 hit d8 melee or +2 hit d8 medium ranged. Sneak attack does more damage than hunter's quarry and rogues have options to attack basic defenses, so rogues don't get to use higher-damage weapons with sneak attack. Nor should they be allowed to.Ruin Explorer said:
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JohnSnow
Hero
Spatula said:
Agreed in principle.
Minor correction: in the hands of a rogue, a shuriken is a +3 hit, d6 ranged weapon. Granted, they're shorter range than his other options.
To an extent, I think they're trying to encourage shuriken usage. And the rogue whose only real ranged weapons are his "throwing knives" is an OLD genre staple.
With 4e, they finally make sense as a weapon.
Lord Sessadore
Explorer
I agree with JohnSnow. I think the rogue's forte is mainly melee, followed by thrown/crossbow ranged.
If you really want that archer character, go with the ranger. And if you want a rogue who does archery sometimes, pick up some ranger multiclassing.
In general: Look for the main shtick of a class. If that shtick isn't what you're going for, find the class that's closest. Doesn't matter if the class of the same name from older editions wouldn't fit the shtick. If your shtick falls mostly in one class, but partly in another, multiclassing is your friend.
If you really want that archer character, go with the ranger. And if you want a rogue who does archery sometimes, pick up some ranger multiclassing.
In general: Look for the main shtick of a class. If that shtick isn't what you're going for, find the class that's closest. Doesn't matter if the class of the same name from older editions wouldn't fit the shtick. If your shtick falls mostly in one class, but partly in another, multiclassing is your friend.
