Why can't you be prepared for a game session

[Abraxas]

I have a slightly different perspective on things.
First - In general, leveling up a character isn't always just a 20 minute process - at least in the campaigns I've played in (where you have dozens of source books allowed) or DM'd (cause I always run the new campaign settings that no one is familiar with).

Second - As a player I put in more time than most DM's that Ive had. I plot and re-plot (with multiple permutations) character advancement for at least 20 levels - taking into account campaign events that change the character's focus. I'm usually the campaign recorder - I keep track of everything, treasure, magic, contacts, plot hooks, NPC names, everything. And then I use this to provide spread sheets of info to the other players. I'm constantly planning strategy - and emailing the other players to find out if their character can do this or that and would they be willing to do this or that. I help other players develop their characters - they tell me they want to do X and I come up with A,B,C and D ways to do that.

Third - when I DM, thats work - because now I have other peoples enjoyment resting on how well I do something, compared to when I play and only have to worry about having fun playing my character. As work its much more stressful and not something thats easy to jump into after another 12 or 13 hour day at work.

Last - Actually being at the game with my friends is why I do what I do, and it could easily be replaced with another group activity - like a poker night, so I don't sweat it when players aren't ready right away

 

[billd91]

Spot on.

The same is true of arriving late. Sure, you may have important to do which is simply more valuable to you than gaming. But I don't think you have the right to force other people to give up their time to your priorities.

It depends on what those priorities are. If those priorities are picking up the kids at day care or work, then the other players had better be understanding. A game is just a game. Some things are a helluva lot more important and should be respected.

 

[Rel]

It depends on what those priorities are. If those priorities are picking up the kids at day care or work, then the other players had better be understanding. A game is just a game. Some things are a helluva lot more important and should be respected.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

I mean obviously if you have stuff that must be taken care of then sure you need to do that. But there's a big difference between the group knowing that Bill has to pick up the kids at day care and can never be at the session before 7:30 and everyone sitting around going, "Where the hell is Bill? Is he coming?"

In the first instance it is something that can be planned for and worked around. In the second then its just being inconsiderate by not picking up the phone.

The whole "it's just a game" philosophy only goes so far with me. Yeah, it's "just a game" but it's a game that we all agreed to get together to play at 7:00 on Monday nights. When a players drags in at 7:45 without having called ahead to warn the rest of us that he's running late or had something come up, it smacks of "my time is more valuable than your time".

 

[billd91]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

I mean obviously if you have stuff that must be taken care of then sure you need to do that. But there's a big difference between the group knowing that Bill has to pick up the kids at day care and can never be at the session before 7:30 and everyone sitting around going, "Where the hell is Bill? Is he coming?".

See, that's why I'm saying it depends. The poster I was quoting didn't seem to make any distinction on why the player is late. I just wanted to get the caveat in there that it DOES matter.

Common courtesy is one thing, yes. We should all exhibit it. But that's not always easy for the other players to determine when the other priorities are really pressing, voluntary, involuntary, minor, or pervasive. That's one reason I usually let lack of preparation or a little lateness slide. I'm not always in a position where I can second guess the player's situation.

 

[Rel]

See, that's why I'm saying it depends. The poster I was quoting didn't seem to make any distinction on why the player is late. I just wanted to get the caveat in there that it DOES matter.

I can buy that.

If I had two players show up late for a game without calling and one said, "I was picking up my kids from day care." and the other said, "I was playing X-Box." then I'd probably be more pissed at the latter. But I'd be pissed at both for not calling ahead to let us know they'd be late.

 

[Agback]

See, that's why I'm saying it depends. The poster I was quoting didn't seem to make any distinction on why the player is late. I just wanted to get the caveat in there that it DOES matter.

Sure it does. So do the things that other people give up to be there on time. If you have to pick your kid up at 5:30, and therefore can't make the game until 6:30, then agreeing to play at 6 is stealing half an hour of the life of all the other players. Sometimes circumstances do occur that justify talking ten bucks out of the wallet of each of your friends without asking them. Those sorts of circumstances justify wasting half an hour of each of your friends' time.

But if you organise you affairs so as to do it every week, then my opinion of you would make Eric's grandma blush.

 

[Agback]

It depends on what those priorities are. If those priorities are picking up the kids at day care or work, then the other players had better be understanding. A game is just a game. Some things are a helluva lot more important and should be respected.

It is simply not up to you to decide what is the most important use of somebody else's time. Besides, just because you are picking up your kids doesn't mean that I have to be cooling my heels and awaiting your condescension. I could be doing some of my important stuff if only you were considerate enough to be truthful when you agree on a time for gaming.

If you have to get your kids at 5:30, and it takes an hour to get them home at then get on to a game, don't agree to play at six.

I am sure that you think that your kids are more important than my hobby. That doesn't entitle you to take my game-books budget and spend it on child-care. What applies to my money applies also to my time. Your sacred duties as a parent mean that you have to make sacrifices, not that you have a right to inflict sacrifices on other people.

And besides, being late for a group engagement is so wasteful. To get yourself another ten minutes you waste a whole person-hour of other people's time.

When you choose to have children, it becomes your absolute duty to put their interests ahead of your own. But it doesn't become my duty to put your kids' interests ahead of my own. And it doesn't give you the right to demand that I waste my time hanging around on standby in case you decide that you'd like me to entertain you. I may, since I am the whole a pretty generous guy and a bit of a sucker, offer to help you deal with your kids. But you have not right to demand it of me. And agreeing (for example) to meet me for a game at six when you can't make it (or when it is likely that you won't be able to make it) until 6:30 is doing just that.

 

[Rel]

If you have to get your kids at 5:30, and it takes an hour to get them home at then get on to a game, don't agree to play at six.

I generally agree with you, Agback. The only exception that I'll make (and this may be implied by what you're saying but I can't be sure) is that if the player in question makes it clear up front that this is a limitation for them but does not ask that the entire rest of the group hold up the game for them then I'm fine with that.

Using your example, if the group decides to meet at 6:00 and the one player must do the kid pickup thing and cannot arrive until 6:30 then I'm ok with that being the understood arrival time for that player. The agreement becomes that the game starts at 6:00 and the player in question will suffer whatever minor problems are associated with getting there late. Alternatively the whole group might agree that they want that player to be able to participate from the start and thus shift that start of the game to 6:30.

My only real underlying point is that the fact that gaming is a liesure activity does not relieve the participants from the rules of common courtesy and consideration for the others involved. I believe that most people would agree that if they made plans to see a movie with friends, and this movie started at 8:00, it would be rude and inconsiderate to roll up to the theatre at 8:15 with them standing outside waiting for you and having missed the first 15 minutes of the movie. To further this analogy as it relates to this thread, I feel that it would also be rude to show up at 8:00 for an 8:00 movie and then force your friends to wait for you while you stood in line for refresments. You could have eaten before you came or you could have gotten there early and ordered the food or you could have waited until after the movie to get some food. Instead you are making everyone miss part of the movie because you didn't take care of that on your own time.

 

[IcyCool]

Your sacred duties as a parent mean that you have to make sacrifices, not that you have a right to inflict sacrifices on other people.

I have a new quote .

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Most of my players are always prepared...except for this one guy. He works a part time job..his only job...and had 3 weeks to prepare a character for my new campaign. On game day, he calls to ask can he play a pre-generated character I was planning to use as an NPC because, in his words, "As you know, it's been very hectic at Movie Gallery (the video rental company he works for PART TIME) and I've been just so frazzled when I get home I couldn't roll up a character. Oh, by the way, did you happen to watch" (insert a half dozen shows here that I never watch and he knows I don't). He then proceeds to tell me how exhausted he is at the end of his 6 hour shift 4 days a week and blah blah blah... He's not married, has no kids or pets, and in fact has never had a date in his life. He does NOTHING but work his part-time job, stop at Pop-eye's Chicken on the way home, and worship at his little shrines to Whedon and Straszynski. Yet he can't take 45 minutes to roll up a character.

I'll kill his character first.