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Why didn't Eberron click?

Azazyll said:
Not everyone likes the planetouched running around. In Eberron, they don't quite fit the setting. But besides that, Eberron doesn't need planetouched, although they could, I suppose, exist, they just aren't integral, as they are starting to be in the FR. Eberron has four new races, two of which fit particularly well with the setting (warforged and shifter). Beyond that, they made elves interesting for the first time in perhaps a decade (if you ignore the teen crush on orlando bloom), and all the other races at least got a twist. Gnomes, praise god, have their gonads back, and I'm actually inclined to use Orcs in my campaign. Druidic, nature loving Orcs? The spiritual goblins? Wait wait, goblins actually get a moments notice, unlike in FR? I was hooked.

I was, however, also very sad about Psionics. It does not blend into the setting well. It is defnitely modular, but very cleverly integrated, IMHO. I actually feel cheated out of an idea, that the same source of psionics I wanted to use in my setting. In fact, Eberron has done so many things that I want to do in my own setting, either directly or coming up with something just as good, that I for once feel no shame in using someone else's campaign. Which is a way I always felt about FR. To me, FR lacks soul, but has everything else. Eberron has soul. If it's lacking everything else, well, it doesn't have more than a decade of support or WotC's darling status to support it. Psionics got less than what it's gotten in Eberron so far in the original campaign setting book, and at least in Eberron Psionics has a life of it's own instead of being "personal weave magic" and taking backseat to the arcane. If FR has been incorporated into the rest of WotC's products, it's because of demand. And because they knew they could seel the Player's Guide and make money off of it. Which caused a lot of griping on these message boards, if I remember correctly. But then, people always complain at first and then praise when it helps later complaints. That's just how people are.

I disagree that the mechanics have fallen short. [edit: it is possible to overdo the mechanics tastelessly, and no one could accuse Eberron of this. There's a little of everything, from the standard feats, races, PCs, spells and domains, to the more recently popular core classes and house rules, but erring on the side of "this is a setting, not a supplement". Don't think of it in terms of FR, which pushes feats and prestige classes as if that was the lifeblood of a campaign world, but more like Greyhawk, where you rarely see a new rule but the campaign is still going strong 25 years later. Rules do not the game make.] The dragonmarks are a stroke of genius. Background and mechanics blend beautifully, with the added twist of the Heirs of Siberys, detailed connection to the setting and an interesting history. Warforged and Shifters get bonus feats that, rather than exhausting the possibilites, point the way to exciting character ideas. I hardly think that adamantine or mithril body plating are the only possibilities, and I'm pretty sure we'll see more options to come. Shifter feats are some of the most graceful game mechanics I've seen in a long time, since the entire genre of feats doesn't just open up knew options of what you can do, they all allow you to do those things often and longer. These are the kinds of ways feats should be used for. This is one of the first books where I didn't feel feats were a dime a dozen in a long time.

But the best part of this book is ideas. People are always complainging about not having enough fluff. Well, this book has enough. I can see why Keith Baker won the setting search. "The same but different" is right. He made the divine interesting again, with believable, actual pantheons and a church earily similar to the real world (the best attempt at the real world church I've ever seen in a fantasy game, but still "fantasy" enough to fit and PC enough not to start MADD up again). He made economics actually feel important to the campaign. There really is an Indiana Jones-ish feel, that nineteen twenties feeling of exploration and wonder laced with intrigue and horror, which has some how comfortably come to rest in a world that is most definitely high fantasy. And about time, there are plenty of low fantasy games out there right now. Not that I don't think midnight or my own favorite ravenloft don't have their places, but I was glad to see that High fantasy can still be cool, since FR hasn't had a breath of fresh air in ages.

In the end, you'll either like Eberron or you won't. But there's no denying that a lot of heart didn't go into this project, or that it brings a truly new and unlooked for mood to the fantasy community that hasn't been caught unprepared in years.



Word to your exquisite use of words!! I agree 100%


:P
 

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erian_7 said:
I actually liked the Eberron CS more because it didn't throw in a ton of new rules/feats/spells/PrCs/whatever. I pretty much avoid all d20 products that are just collections of rules--there is already such a glut of feats and PrCs that I plan on restricting future games to just WotC stuff. Give me some fresh new ideas for characters, plots, organization, etc. We've already got plenty of rules to monkey with.

Eric
Amen to that. Although you know they're going to do throw more crunch than you can stand in all the supplement books. They can't help themselves.
 

I bought it and passed it around my gaming group. We love the new mechanics. We love the flavor. But the actual countries and storylines just don't do it for us. For some reason the people and places just aren't that compelling. And while it might seem shallow, we all had serious problems with the names. We really, really, did not like the names.
 

Just my thoughts

Kitsune said:
After reading through the torrent of glowing reviews, I trundled on out to the nearest B&N with an eye towards picking it up. I grabbed the copy, sat down in a comfy chair, read for an hour, then put it back. It had utterly failed to spark any excitement.
Same here. :confused:

Read. Yawned. Read more. Got bored. Left it on the shell.


 

Theseus said:
Same here. :confused:

Read. Yawned. Read more. Got bored. Left it on the shell.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

Me, I liked it so much after browsing it that I grabbed a copy immediately after. I really like it.
 
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I also thought that psionics was glossed over in the book. I like it overall, but psionics was given short-shrift.

Why aren't the psionic races and locations on the main continent? They're shuttled off to another continent and given half-assed development. We get tons of information on the influence of magic on the setting, both divine and arcane. The psions are barely mentioned as the rare ambassador or spy from the distant continent of the psions.

The psionic race is not listed as the sole users of psionics in the setting. So the dragonmarked houses presumably have psions, psychic warriors, soulknives, and wilders sprinkled in. But they are utterly ignored and unmentioned. Not a single NPC that isn't from the psionic continent has any psionic class levels.

The idea that Eberron offers complete psionic support and integration is flatly false. It is relegated to the corners of the world, just as it is in every other D&D setting except for Dark Sun. As a psionics fan, I'm very disappointed.
 

I think my "problem" with the setting is that it's very much the same in the statement "same but different." Coming off Arcana Unearthed and going back to standard DnD is actually kinda weird...

But I realize I'm a little biased and a bit of a Malhavoc fanboy. I gave the book a good read-through and I really like it. Sure it's conventional, but the Eberron team did an excellent job of looking at those conventions from different angles. Moral grays? Church corruption? In DnD?! :eek: That's great! A setting that opens up two years after a major war? Excellent idea. Diplomatic gnomes, pirate half-elves, mercenary elves, Gatekeeper orcs, barbarian halflings, and a whole slew of different kinds of humans: excellent.

I don't like the mechanics. They're clunky, and I don't think they spent enough time revising them. But since that's been Wizards' trend lately, I won't hold it against the book. There are a lot of great ideas here, plenty to steal if you didn't want to run a straight Eberron game. And if you did, I'd definitely play in it :)
 

I actually picked it up because some of the people I play with were talking about running it, not because I found it especially interesting.

I especially don't like the fact that, in order to maintain complete compatibility with the core rules, they didn't even try to change anything to create a world with a more unique feel - they just put another layer of stuff on top of what's already there. I'm really starting to believe they chose this setting because a)They needed something new and generic to use for computer game licensing and b)They wanted something that'd specifically work well for the D&D MMORPG game that's being developed.

And on a random note, I absolutely hate the shifters... Look at me, I'm so different and unique, I can grow some claws once per day for half a minute! I make so much sense in a setting where apparently the designers weren't afraid to make constructs an ECL ) race!
 

Dave Turner said:
I also thought that psionics was glossed over in the book. I like it overall, but psionics was given short-shrift.

Why aren't the psionic races and locations on the main continent? They're shuttled off to another continent and given half-assed development. We get tons of information on the influence of magic on the setting, both divine and arcane. The psions are barely mentioned as the rare ambassador or spy from the distant continent of the psions.

The psionic race is not listed as the sole users of psionics in the setting. So the dragonmarked houses presumably have psions, psychic warriors, soulknives, and wilders sprinkled in. But they are utterly ignored and unmentioned. Not a single NPC that isn't from the psionic continent has any psionic class levels.

The idea that Eberron offers complete psionic support and integration is flatly false. It is relegated to the corners of the world, just as it is in every other D&D setting except for Dark Sun. As a psionics fan, I'm very disappointed.

1) Yes, in a way, psionics wasn't given full attention. And why? Because Eberron is mainly designed to work with the existing material. And most of the existing material deals with what's in the core books. Personally, I would have wanted to see one psionic prestige in the book but hey, just because it wasn't in the main book doesn't mean they won't publish it next time. I honestly think that a good room for psionics in Eberron would be in the supplements (unfortunately, aside from the published adventures, Sharn is the only known release so far, so I guess everything else will have to wait until next year).

2) Note that psionic support and integration is not necessarily equal to "this is a full-blown psionic setting". I mean it is delegated a continent (and a whole power group of would-be invaders). And it's not like the Kalashtar aren't around the main continent. Heck, who knows what plots the Inspired have, and the far reaching consequences they are capable of?

3) The lack of Psionic NPCs is probably due to reasons in #1. They won't make sense to other GMs unless they invested in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. And while other houses can conceivably have psions and psychic warriors, they won't be many, and it's also said somewhere in the book that it's the Kalashtars that usually "train" other people or introduce them to psionics.

4) There's no reason why you can't have your adventures in "the other continent, where all the psionics is happening". Of course if you want to be faithful to the WotC source material, we'll have to wait when the official regionbook gets published but that doesn't stop you for creating your own scenarios.
 

Psionics in Eberron

Dave Turner said:
The idea that Eberron offers complete psionic support and integration is flatly false. It is relegated to the corners of the world, just as it is in every other D&D setting except for Dark Sun. As a psionics fan, I'm very disappointed.

I feel your pain, man! However, it's not as if we were mislead. Keith Baker always said the psionic aspects of Eberron could easily be ignored by someone who didn't want to involve psionic play, or be enhanced by those who do want psionics. So they pretty much had to be pushed off to their own corner of the world.

There was never any promise of "complete psionic support", even from WotC marketing. The April Gearing Up for Eberron article stated that, "if you don't want psionics in your Eberron campaign, it's as simple as just making the decision. The campaign setting was designed to allow you to do just that -- the continent of Sarlona can simply be a place that people (and monsters) don't come from and your characters don't visit."
 
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