Why didn't they change Slay Living?

[Li Shenron]

Fortitude save isn't that worse than Will save. Not enough to justify a 1-level difference IMO.

 

[Li Shenron]

PS Ok, Elementals should be affected too.

 

[Arravis]

Yeah, I agree that it should have been changed. There's no reason to change all the other ones and not this one. It's probably WoTC's goal to make clerics more desirable by making them more powerful then other classes. Not the way to do it, in my opinion.

 

[Shin Okada]

Harm is the reverse of Heal. It is natural that both spells are in the same level. And Heal is still a very strong spell.

Also, actually, Harm is Heal for Undead monsters.

While Slay Living is strong, it is a touch spell. It is enough of a reason why Slay Living is a level lower than Disintegrate. Also, Disintegrate is more versatile.

 

[Li Shenron]

While Slay Living is strong, it is a touch spell. It is enough of a reason why Slay Living is a level lower than Disintegrate. Also, Disintegrate is more versatile.

I know that Disintegrate is more versatile. But why do you think a touch attack is enough reason for a lower level? If the 2 spell were exactly the same otherwise, a touch attack is much better than a ranged touch attack for just one reason: if you miss the touch attack you can try again with the same spell, if you miss the ranged touch attack you need to cast the spell again.

 

[Shadeus]

I know that Disintegrate is more versatile. But why do you think a touch attack is enough reason for a lower level? If the 2 spell were exactly the same otherwise, a touch attack is much better than a ranged touch attack for just one reason: if you miss the touch attack you can try again with the same spell, if you miss the ranged touch attack you need to cast the spell again.

Ranged touch means you are not standing next to the big guy with the sword ready to chop you in two. It means you can do it flying in the air 60 ft. away.

You are right about the holding the charge aspect: you don't waste your spell. But doing so, you risk your own life in the process.

Harm does seem a little less nasty than before, now that you mention it. Maybe reducing the hit point damage and giving it a save makes harm a little more worthless. It's a Will save though (I think), which means its a more viable option against fighter types.

 

[Shin Okada]

But why do you think a touch attack is enough reason for a lower level?

Because, you must get close to the target. That means, you may be hit by melee attacks (if you fail to kill it, or if you don't have some way to prevent AoA against something with reach when approaching). Sure you can hold the charge with a touch spell. But typical combat does not last more than 4 rounds. So that is not a significant advantage. What you can do in a round is more important.

 

[Scion]

Odd, my combats run the gambit from about 4 rounds up into minutes tactical movement can really delay various actions.

Personally, I dont like any 'save or die' spells. I tend to tell the players that there are none in the world unless they want to use them, typically this leads to the players not picking any..lol

I think that given the choice between 'touch' range and 'close' range a lot of the time the difference is pretty moot. A single move action will allow getting to the target generally.

Being able to hold the charge is also a big point in its favor. While you are holding that anyone who provokes an aoo from you might just die. that is a pretty big deterant!

You can also cast this spell before combat starts in order to save time with it. This can be a pretty big boon at times.

 

[dedicated]

I don't think you can make aoo while using a touch spell, unless they changed it from 3.0 (don't quote me on that, my books are at my DM's house )

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't think you can make aoo while using a touch spell, unless they changed it from 3.0 (don't quote me on that, my books are at my DM's house )

They didn't change it from 3.0, but you can make an AoO while using a touch spell. While holding a charge, you are considered armed, though you may be unarmed.