delericho
Legend
Bront said:Touch and save is the same equivilent to the save and save in the case of Phantasmal Killer. Generaly, spells with no save get a touch or range touch attack (Or are area effects).
I think that was the intent of the designers, but I don't think it has worked out this way. In general, almost all characters have a much lower touch AC than their regular AC. The 17th level Paladin in my game has an AC of 44 and a touch AC of 19. (Mithral Full Plate +5, Heavy Shield +5, Dex +3, Ring +5, Amulet +5, Ioun Stone +1 - I'm pretty sure that's the best he can get in the core rules.) Only the party wizard and rogue have fairly close regular and touch AC values, and in both cases this is because their ACs are much lower in general (25/18 for the rogue, 15/9 for the wizard - but neither is optimised for AC).
A 17th level wizard with a +2 Dex modifier has a +10 bonus on ranged touch attack spells, while a 17th level cleric with a +2 Str modifier has a +14 bonus on melee touch attack spells.