Why didn't they change Slay Living?

[Henry]

One additional thought about spells that require Fortitude Saves: Characters with good fort saves are the most common characters. SEVEN out of the 11 base classes have good fortitude saving throws. (Six classes have good Will saves, and only four have good Reflex saves). In one sense, it's weaker than the other two saves required, because it's so prevalent! It's also why it's so much fun tossing Fireballs and lightning bolts.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This is the lowest level save-or-die spell except for Phantasmal Killer (which allows two saves (Will and Fort) making it quite less dangerous).

Bah.

Tell that to my 6th-level character who only survived a Phantasmal Killer last session by pulling out his carefully-hoarded "That Didn't Happen" effect from the Deck of Many Things...

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Harm is still pretty damn potent.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

Bah.

Tell that to my 6th-level character who only survived a Phantasmal Killer last session by pulling out his carefully-hoarded "That Didn't Happen" effect from the Deck of Many Things...

-Hyp.

So you are saying that two saves isnt quite a bit less dangerous than one save because a character happened to fail both saves?

If so, count me as confused

 

[Infiniti2000]

No, he's saying don't introduce an artifact into a low-level game.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Bah.

Tell that to my 6th-level character who only survived a Phantasmal Killer last session by pulling out his carefully-hoarded "That Didn't Happen" effect from the Deck of Many Things...

-Hyp.

You drew?? O_O

You are a braver soul than I. *salute*

 

[Wonko the Sane]

This is the lowest level save-or-die spell except for Phantasmal Killer (which allows two saves (Will and Fort) making it quite less dangerous).

Sleep - 1st level, Will save or be coup-de-graced (read: die).
Deep Slumber - 3rd level, same as sleep, but more HD.
Hold Person - 3rd level, Will save or be helpless. If you're using wings to fly, you go splat.
Suggestion - 3rd level (2nd for bards), Will save or gleefully dive into the nearest lava stream.

Hmm...turns out that even being a low level adventurer is dangerous. Granted, none of the above spells outright kills the target, but given the proper hostile environment (what isn't?), just about any spell of any level can be proven to make for anticlimactic finishes. I don't recommend trying to kill the next BBEG with resist energy, however.

If anyone knows a way though, please let me know

 

[UltimaGabe]

I don't recommend trying to kill the next BBEG with resist energy, however.

If anyone knows a way though, please let me know

Ever think about using Resist Energy [Fire] on a BBEG Fire-based Sorcerer, and then dismissing it once he starts casting Fireballs into his own space?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sleep - 1st level, Will save or be coup-de-graced (read: die).

No - will save, or be coup-de-graced IF an opponent is standing next to you, and gets his turn before one of your fellows, who can reverse the effect of the spell with a standard action.

Deep Slumber - 3rd level, same as sleep, but more HD.

Yup. See above.

Hold Person - 3rd level, Will save or be helpless. If you're using wings to fly, you go splat.

True, but splat is rarely "die". And you probably get some more saves before anyone is going to coup-de-grace you.

Suggestion - 3rd level (2nd for bards), Will save or gleefully dive into the nearest lava stream.

Probably not. "That lava sounds nice for a swim" is probably not going to cut it...

 

[ThirdWizard]

Right, they're much harder to pull off than just "save or die" but they exist as a means to kill an enemy quickly. Obviously since they are lower level they are going to be weaker at the killing, but in essence what we have are lower level spells designed to quickly kill the opposition through means other than hit point damage (opening them up to coup de graces). I think that's the point he's trying to make.