D&D 5E Why different HD types for classes? (Another HP thread...)

[clearstream]

So, the real answer is that it was conceived as a game balance tool and nowadays is mostly a legacy mechanic.

It's a pillar mechanic, not legacy. It's still in use, because it is right.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I admit I am a bit surprised no one has brought up a something in all this: on average, we are talking about a difference +/- 1 hp per level for the most part. Since most groups (from what it seems like on the forum) play mostly to about 8th-10th levels, ultimately it is about 10 hp or so, right, for most players?

I think a larger issue for me is how the game allows for max HP at level 1 and not rolling for HP at later levels. I am sure some people are happy with that, but the lack of randomness means a Rogue can never have more HP than a Fighter (assuming equal CON of course). I think that is the issue that was bothering me but I didn't realize it until this morning.

By reintroducing randomness, this could remove that issue. In that light, to at least make the likelihood of average HP I would make HP non-linear. Maybe just do something like this:

d6 becomes d3+3, 2d3 after level 1.
d8 becomes d4+4, 2d4 after level 1.
d10 becomes d5+5, 2d5 after level 1.
d12 becomes d6+6, 2d6 after level 1.

 

[clearstream]

I admit I am a bit surprised no one has brought up a something in all this: on average, we are talking about a difference +/- 1 hp per level for the most part. Since most groups (from what it seems like on the forum) play mostly to about 8th-10th levels, ultimately it is about 10 hp or so, right, for most players?

I think a larger issue for me is how the game allows for max HP at level 1 and not rolling for HP at later levels. I am sure some people are happy with that, but the lack of randomness means a Rogue can never have more HP than a Fighter (assuming equal CON of course). I think that is the issue that was bothering me but I didn't realize it until this morning.

By reintroducing randomness, this could remove that issue. In that light, to at least make the likelihood of average HP I would make HP non-linear. Maybe just do something like this:

d6 becomes d3+3, 2d3 after level 1.
d8 becomes d4+4, 2d4 after level 1.
d10 becomes d5+5, 2d5 after level 1.
d12 becomes d6+6, 2d6 after level 1.

Maybe so. One could use the randomness in a different way...

d6 -> d4+2
d8 -> d4+4
d10 -> d4+6
d12 -> d4+8

So the variance is the same for all classes (which makes more sense to me, but YMMV) and the martial classes have terrifically strong bases, e.g. a barbarian fully 6 hit points over wizard per level.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Maybe so. One could use the randomness in a different way...

d6 -> d4+2
d8 -> d4+4
d10 -> d4+6
d12 -> d4+8

So the variance is the same for all classes (which makes more sense to me, but YMMV) and the martial classes have terrifically strong bases, e.g. a barbarian fully 6 hit points over wizard per level.

True, that takes care of some randomness, but that doesn't eliminate the issue I addressed because now any warriors will always have more hp than a wizard could possibly have (again, assuming equal CON scores...).

I do like that they all have a base d4, though.

 

[clearstream]

True, that takes care of some randomness, but that doesn't eliminate the issue I addressed because now any warriors will always have more hp than a wizard could possibly have (again, assuming equal CON scores...).

That's a feature, not a bug

I do like that they all have a base d4, though.

Me too!

 

[clearstream]

True, that takes care of some randomness, but that doesn't eliminate the issue I addressed because now any warriors will always have more hp than a wizard could possibly have (again, assuming equal CON scores...).

I do like that they all have a base d4, though.

Alternatively, to fix your concern

d6 -> d6
d8 -> d6+2
d10 -> d6+4
d12 -> d6+6

A wizard might have within level*1 HP of a barbarian...

 

[DND_Reborn]

Alternatively, to fix your concern

d6 -> d6
d8 -> d6+2
d10 -> d6+4
d12 -> d6+6

A wizard might have within level*1 HP of a barbarian...

LOL I was just thinking of this! While not perfect, it does make it so a Wizard with a good CON could have more HP than a fighter or barbarian, etc.

I'll talk to the group in a few hours and post tomorrow about our decision.

 

[Oofta]

Sure, that is the physical endurance component of HP. And I totally see warriors having more of that aspect of HP than other classes (possibly), but I can just as easily see other classes having more of the other stuff.

LOL, we have another thread that says fighters aren't good enough outside of combat and now you want to make casters more durable and better in combat? Dilute what makes a fighter special by making other classes more like fighters?

Good grief, no game can do everything.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Fighters have Second Wind, Barbarians can Rage, Paladins Lay on Hands, and Rangers... well, they might have something but then again they might have been left out (as usual... ).

And why penalize other classes?

For the same reason that non-Rogues or Bards are penalised by not being given Extra skills, or non-Wizards are penalised for not having as varied a spell list or as easy rituals.
Not everyone gets everything, and game balance is more important in a party-based game than that level of verisimilitude for most people.

Oh, I understand why it is done (the "truth"), I just don't think game balance is a valid reason when you consider the idea of abstract hit points.

That is the entire point. Hit points are abstract and so are ideal to use as a game balance since it is easily justified how the martial classes would get more of them.
For example, attacks are also abstract, but why does a Fighter get more than a Wizard despite them both having the same level of proficiency with their weapon?

Luck for Rogues and the others were just examples. Anyone can have more of anything that compensates for the over-bloated physical endurance aspect. Maybe a fighter has most of his HP from luck? Who knows?

Maybe indeed. The training and experience are just something the class adds on to the base. Since randomly-rolled HP can vary quite a bit it is entirely possible that the reason a particular sorceror has more HP than a particular Fighter could be down to luck for example: The Sorceror is just luckier than the Fighter, even beyond the extent that the Fighter's training can compensate.

By "Physical endurance", are you referring to the the CON modifier? Why do you feel that that is over-bloated?

 

[Hriston]

Giving fightery characters more hit points opens up the design space to make magic and special abilities special.