Why do clerics charge for spells?

[TheAuldGrump]

I think people are ignoring D&D's economic scale when they post things like what you're replying to. 125k gp is a LOT of money! It's enough to buy a couple border keeps, or add a significant amount to the royal palace, or buy a few small cities... And how many helms of brilliance are there floating around out in the world, anyway? I wouldn't ever give my kingdom's HoB to adventurers unless they were the absolute paragons of virtue and I already believed they had a good chance to survive without it.

Heh, note that I said 'use' not 'keep' - and further made the assumption that the King already had one. This choice of words was not accidental. The King is not going to let them keep it, nor is he going to commission the creation of one. However if someone is going to wear it while confronting the Forces of Heck then better them than him.

And look up the duties and priviledges of a knight - the King is going to be darned sure to get his money's worth (most likely the old fashioned way - war).

For that matter there is always scutage - under some kings (most notably British) if you had the money to be a knight then you were a knight - and you were not asked about it first, if you had the money to afford a horse and armor then you were required to buy them and join the king's knights wheresoever they were off killing people. Or you could spend the money to equip and support someone who would.

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

:chuckle:

That might make an amusing adventure hook. Just imagine, a bunch of litte old ladies selling cakes, pies, and brownies to raise money for the local church of St. Cuthbert. Then something goes wrong.

Heh, heh, heh...

There has got to be a way to use that in my Iron Kingdom's game...

The Auld Grump

 

[Felon]

I wish more people I deal with in real life shared that point of view. As long as I did not have to.

"Of course I'll code that program for free. After all, it'll only take me half an hour, and time's free, right? Pay for my education? Why, I've already done that, and got the xp!"

I believe the point here is that most good churches have a doctrine that emphasizes altruism and probably that de-emphasizes materialism. Thus, it is not unreasonable for them to have the very outlook on helping others without compensation that you make light of. A good deed is its own reward.

Now, I understand why a church would charge an adventurer a fee for healing; there are actually a lot of reasons. For one thing, that adventurer's money can create a lot of spell scrols that can in turn be used to help many needy people, not to mention fund other good works such as buying food for the starving and shelter for the destitute. And hey, in troubled areas there's likely a circular effect where that money is used to hire adventurers to combat evil.

But having said all that, the original question is still a valid one to ask.

 

[Felon]

Back on subject - does the community expect any PC cleric to grant the same free spells for them?

Good question. And how well would a PC charging NPC's for heals go over with most DM's? I suspect the average DM would frown on it heavily and likely would deem this despicable, greedy priest deserving of divine scorn (assuming he was good-aligned).

 

[LostSoul]

I think people are ignoring D&D's economic scale when they post things like what you're replying to. 125k gp is a LOT of money! It's enough to buy a couple border keeps, or add a significant amount to the royal palace, or buy a few small cities... And how many helms of brilliance are there floating around out in the world, anyway? I wouldn't ever give my kingdom's HoB to adventurers unless they were the absolute paragons of virtue and I already believed they had a good chance to survive without it.

What good is all that cash, all those magic items, those cities, etc. when the world's over?

If the PCs are going to save the world, why not help them out? If they fail, you don't lose anything; if they win, you get to keep your life. Fair trade.

If there is someone better than the PCs who might save the world, why are you running that adventure? Why not run a different adventure and say, "Oh, by the way, there is a big party for these NPCs who just saved the world."

 

[LostSoul]

First time I have heard 'common sense' called a 'big problem'.

King: So, I should give the group known to have failed on this, this, and this occassion a free Helm of Brilliance? Chencelor, send in the next party.

If they fail, the world is over. If what's at stake is the entire world, why not give everything you've got to your only hope?

That sounds like common sense to me.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

If they fail, the world is over. If what's at stake is the entire world, why not give everything you've got to your only hope?

That sounds like common sense to me.

Or you get another group without the high pricetag.

And boy, does it get the player's goats when another adventuring party gets the accolades. (And if you are cruel the King tosses in the HoB as a bonus...)

The PCs are not the only fish in the sea, and quite likely not even the largest.

As DM I would let the world end if the PCs tried to demand something from a King - they are not always subtle, and prone to anger.

1. Does the King believe that the world is going to end? (Likely answer - No.)

2. Does he feel that they need that HoB (and for that matter does the DM)? (Likely answer - No.)

3. Either way is the King going to let these political flyweights push him around - even if it means that the world goes *poof!*? (Likely answer - No.)

4. And is the world even likely to go *poof!* if the PCs do not go on the adventure? (Likely answer - who's running the game? )

The Auld Grump

 

[LostSoul]

Or you get another group without the high pricetag.

Which is fine, then I agree with you.

But since I came up with the example situation in the first place, let me clarify that I was talking about a group of PCs who are the world's only hope. That's why I put this line in there:

[PCs die, world ends, all thanks to the lack of a helm of brilliance]

If the PCs weren't the world's only hope, the world would not have ended.

 

[Altalazar]

How about becuase other churches do.

Think about it like this church A decides to charge for curing and makes a few bucks after the other churches have used up their spells healing the poor/sick for free. Now with some capitol Church A can throw money around and aquire more followers. Maybe they don't charge a lot but they charge something and then poor that money back into gaining foloowers.

The pool of followers is limited so when they gain the other chruchs that don't charge lose some followers. Yes they gain a little good will from healing but the other church is feeding us most day and clothing us were as we probably would have healed on our own.

Church B sees Chruch A start pulling ahead with more followers and decides it need to charge as well.

Eventually I see a price war occuring then prices finally stabilizing and settling down.

Just another thought I didn't see mentioned

later

You are forgetting the other side of the equation - the church that charges the least for healing will probably get many more worshippers - the one that charges nothing gets the most. After all, they could have a "membership plan" - where full church members (who show up to church every morning for services) get free healing and others have to pay. Now the one with the free healing will get ALL of the peasants for the coveted dawn prayer time and the churches that charge money to everyone will just have to sit on the pile of money in an empty church because all of the peasants are at the one that charges nothing.

See, the other side of the supply/demand curve is what many people always forget - the lower the cost, the higher the demand. So would be the exact opposite of what you indicate. It won't be that the churges that charge less will have less worshippers, they'll be the ones with the most worshippers.

 

[Henry]

I like Eberron's supposition for dealing with it: There are very very few "Clerics", per se - very few people measure up to that potential. Actual spellcasters (such as adepts) are not rare, but they are uncommon, and they have far fewer casting powers than an equivalent cleric (only a 16th level adept can raise the dead, for instance).

True Clerics are as rare as paladins, pretty much, and people are always asking, buying, and beseeching help at all times. By the time the adventurers get there, they may well have had all their healing drained by the day's usage, anyway!

I know such isn't the case in Faerun or Greyhawk, necessarily, but similar logic can be applied - a 3rd level cleric can only do so much, anyway!