Why do clerics turn undead?

[Elder-Basilisk]

I would imagine that turning undead is there because of the religious content of some of the undead stories. In Dracula for instance (or at least the most recent movie), part of his becoming a vampire is rejection of God and salvation. It is certainly true that in a lot of the legends, vampires fear crosses and are killed by placing holy water or holy wafers in their mouth after beheading and staking. So, there is a traditional opposition between the forces of god and certain kinds of undead. Unless I miss my guess, D&D transferred that to all undead and made it part of the cleric class (on the presumption that clerics have the faith necessary to do such things).

I could see a campaign granting a Van-Helsing like wizard the power to turn undead through faith. However, without some divine connection, the idea of turning undead loses all significance. At that point, why not just design a mass command undead spell?

 

[Scion]

Cleric spells vs wizard spells?

Now that is a tough one, I guess it all depends on what you are trying to do. Most of the time the cleric spells will do just as much, if not more, than the arcane version. Wizards have a couple of beanies, but a good portion of those are in domains anyway.

So, how do wizards have better spells again?

Even failing that though, it seems that the arcane types are made so horrible mainly as a sacred cow. Giving them a bit more hp, and some actual spell advantage would go a long way

Taking away turning from the cleric probably isnt necissary, it is much more necissary to simply give the arcane types a boost. That makes the most sense.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That would be pretty fair, requiring an arcane caster to learn three feats to get there and on the way get the ability to channel positive and negative energy in both ways (cure/inflict wounds and turn/rebuke undead).

And Divine Vigor!

-Hyp.

 

[JoeBlank]

As already mentioned, the utility of the turn undead ability is campaign dependent. Got a lot of undead in your campaign, then it is an important and powerful ability.

I would consider trading all the wizard's bonus feats for turn undead. That may be a little overpowered, so I you could ratchet it down as far as on a paladin's level (as cleric 3 levels lower), or somewhere in between, like maybe 2 levels lower.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Mechanically I think turning undead would make a reasonable feat for most campaigns although it would seem goofy flavorwise in many particular cases.

If it is so much more powerful than a single feat, then clearly we have underestimated the brokeness of the Cleric class. The Cleric is already getting two domain abilities that are generally a notch or two better than a feat.

 

[Nail]

And the whole "Clerics don't have to heal" line is one of the biggest loads in the history of D&D.

In 3e, it's true: Clerics don't have to spend their spell slots on heal....and at mid- to high- levels, they can let others with Wands of Cure ____ Wounds do the dirty work.

My cleric rarely has to cast a cure spell from his personal repertoire. I use them for making the rest of my party more effective...or for attacking the enemy directly! There are plenty of options for both.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Check out the Sacred Excorcist in CD, a 9th level Wizard qualifies. Now even your low-HP wizard can Divine Vigor

Coupled with Arcane Devotee: Kelemvor (Repose Domain) you get access to some of those nifty cleric spells such as speak with dead, hide from undead, gentle repose one level earlier, and death ward with a Wis 14.

 

[Staffan]

I would consider trading all the wizard's bonus feats for turn undead. That may be a little overpowered, so I you could ratchet it down as far as on a paladin's level (as cleric 3 levels lower), or somewhere in between, like maybe 2 levels lower.

There's actually an analog to this in Eberron. There's a feat that druids can take called Repel Aberration, which provides a weaker form of turning for Aberrations. It's weaker because it demands concentration, and only prevents the turned creatures from coming nearer the druid - they don't have to flee, they just can't approach. It also has a prerequisite feat.

I'd say that the ability to turn undead should probably be a feat with two somewhat useful prereqs - possibly a lesser version could be the second of those feats.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I'd say that the ability to turn undead should probably be a feat with two somewhat useful prereqs - possibly a lesser version could be the second of those feats.

Sounds reasonable. Have a suggestion for the prereq? Nothing springs to mind here.

 

[Spatula]

I'm trying to build an arcane necromancer, and it seems that the key thing they miss is the ability to turn (or in my case rebuke/command) undead.

Tome & Blood has a 4th level necromancy spells that lets wizards do exactly that.