Why do DM's like Dark, gritty worlds and players the opposite?

[pawsplay]

What is being said here is that there seems to be a disproportionately high number of DMs who want to run gritty worlds, and a relatively low number of players interested in playing in those gritty worlds.

Ok, sure. Offer some evidence.

 

[MarkB]

Not true in my experience. Let's try another example comparison.

Which was darker/grittier: The species-nation states of Babylon 5 or the all-inclusive Federation of Star Trek?

Babylon 5. Which, if your campaign takes place in the space station that was the main setting of the series, contains if anything a wider variety of species than any one location in Star Trek.

I'd also cite Farscape as being grimmer and grittier than either, and providing a wider range of species as primary characters.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

First, dark, gritty worlds tend to have a lot of "shades of gray" choices. And its easy for those to turn into "gotcha" moments. "Do you save the girl, or do you uphold your oath? Either way its gonna suck!" Its better to be the guy inflicting the "gotcha" then the person who's been got.

Second, dark and gritty worlds tend to have restrictions on the amount of awesome available. And guess who gets to dole it out? Its better to be that guy.

I agree with this entirely. It's a combination of gritty being equated to "deadly" in a lot of cases and all the power being in the DMs hands.

If you live in a world where any character you make up is going to be a peasant who barely has the ability to fight who is subjected to numerous difficult decisions that are going to end badly for you almost no matter which way you decide followed quickly by your senseless death by a random encounter...well, it can be no fun.

Like other people have said. It doesn't NEED to turn out this way, but it often does.

On the other hand, as the DM you can get very deeply involved with this "deep, interesting" world, take pride in coming up with interesting moral quandaries for your players, and pat yourself on the back for how "immersive" your game is because you accurately simulated the death toll of wandering through the "Ever Cursed Forest".

 

[Azgulor]

Babylon 5. Which, if your campaign takes place in the space station that was the main setting of the series, contains if anything a wider variety of species than any one location in Star Trek.

I'd also cite Farscape as being grimmer and grittier than either, and providing a wider range of species as primary characters.

Agree on both counts. However, neither lends themselves to the "Strangers in a Bar/Tavern join to save the world/kingdom/damsel".

 

[Xris Robin]

Agree on both counts. However, neither lends themselves to the "Strangers in a Bar/Tavern join to save the world/kingdom/damsel".

No, Farscape was a campaign that started "So, you're all captives on this prison ship that's actually alive..."

 

[Afrodyte]

For me as a player, it's about agency. I need to be able to make meaningful choices. And by meaningful, I'm talking about different actions leading to different consequences. That doesn't mean I have to avoid situations where I must choose between 2 or more bad options, but I do want the effects to be different. If Choice A and Choice B both lead to "You die," I'm not very interested. But if Choice A and Choice B lead to "You die but you save your friends" or "You die but your fame lives forever," that's something I can sink my teeth into.

Agency, for me, isn't about the style of game so much as the choices it allows me to make.

As a GM, I'm usually in it to enable agency and empower players to make meaningful choices. I GM when I'm not sure how I think characters would affect a scenario. Besides, if I wanted a script, I'd write one.

 

[Andor]

I find it interesting that a bar in a 'Wretched hive of scum and villany' is held up as an example of not gritty. Even through getting the party together in that bar involved two deaths and a limbing, as well as rampant prejudice against droids.

What would that scene have need to qualify as 'gritty' in your book? Biowarfare?

 

[nightwyrm]

Perhaps we should define what we mean by "dark and gritty". To some, it having means a deadly combat system. To others, it means having a forlorn and hopeless atmosphere or an absence of clear moral lines. Some sees it as having PCs that are no more special than NPCs while others see it as injecting real world societal problems into their game worlds.

Granted, these definitions aren't mutually exclusive, but I get the feeling that many posters are talking pass each other due to each having different definitions of "dark and gritty"

Now personally, whether I'm the DM or the player, I demand my game to be awesome (cue Michael Bay reference).

 

[The Ghost]

Edit: Removed parts quoting Majoru Oakheart.

To others, it means having a forlorn and hopeless atmosphere or an absence of clear moral lines. Some sees it as having PCs that are no more special than NPCs while others see it as injecting real world societal problems into their game worlds.

These fit my definition of "dark and gritty".

 

[Vegepygmy]

It's hard to invest a lot of time and effort into a character only to have him die ignobly by, say, a lucky critical that severs the jugular. Struggling against odds is something I introduce in most of my campaigns as a DM, but as a player, it's hard to be "some guy" when you want to play a swashbucking hero or mighty spellslinger.

This is just me speaking for myself, of course, but...two weeks ago, my "swashbuckling hero" character, whom I'd been playing for around six months and put quite a bit of effort into, died quite ignobly in a random encounter as the party did some overland travel. I certainly wasn't hoping for that to happen, but the fact that it did anyway is what makes D&D fun for me.

And in the last two weeks, watching the party cleric (who had developed quite a case of hero worship for my character, due to my character's casual bravery and daring exploits) bemoan the loss of his idol has been a lot of fun. So I really can't agree that it's "hard" to do as you say. For me, it's the most enjoyable way to play the game.